Anyone here actually fly an airplane? Especially a 172 Cessna? I have the Saitek pro flight yolk system. Im wondering if the real thing has the return to center position like the Saitek yolk? I see people modding the yolk system to get a more realistic feel. Any recommendations? Some use springs or rubber bands for the return and some to clear the center stop. Others with an electronic board to remove the dead zone in the alerons, rudder, and elevators. Any advise is appreciated.
Peace
Stupid Question?
Re: Stupid Question?
Many of us do, and no there is no system to return the controls to the center position. I fly 182s and 172s frequently.
The aerodynamic forces on the elevator and rudder will move them to the trimmed position and the aileron will not recenter the yoke.
BTW it is spelled yoke not yolk. Yolks are the yellow things found in eggs.
I wouldn't bother with modding the controls as it still won't mimic the real thing without force feedback and the ability to alter the neutral position and weight of the controls in response to trim and aerodynamic forces.
Go up for an introductory flight lesson sometime so you can experience the real deal. It isn't too expensive and you get close to an hour in the air at the controls. You may even get to do the takeoff.
The aerodynamic forces on the elevator and rudder will move them to the trimmed position and the aileron will not recenter the yoke.
BTW it is spelled yoke not yolk. Yolks are the yellow things found in eggs.
I wouldn't bother with modding the controls as it still won't mimic the real thing without force feedback and the ability to alter the neutral position and weight of the controls in response to trim and aerodynamic forces.
Go up for an introductory flight lesson sometime so you can experience the real deal. It isn't too expensive and you get close to an hour in the air at the controls. You may even get to do the takeoff.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
Re: Stupid Question?
Yolk, yoke, polk, poke, (haha) So I was having breakfast when I was writing this thread. lol
Thanks for replying. So, if I were to move the stick to the complete forward position, it would stay there indefinitely? Without coming back to center, naturally? Not sure if you have flown flight sim with the saitek yoke, but it does generate force, up and down (In and out) and I have to trim out to get the plane to a more centered flight and a more controllable stick. So the forces are there to contend with. I notice though that there is a center spot in this yoke. Some have modded to get rid of the center position so its a constant smooth motion (In and out). Without hitting the center. Would you that part is accurate?
Thanks for replying. So, if I were to move the stick to the complete forward position, it would stay there indefinitely? Without coming back to center, naturally? Not sure if you have flown flight sim with the saitek yoke, but it does generate force, up and down (In and out) and I have to trim out to get the plane to a more centered flight and a more controllable stick. So the forces are there to contend with. I notice though that there is a center spot in this yoke. Some have modded to get rid of the center position so its a constant smooth motion (In and out). Without hitting the center. Would you that part is accurate?
Re: Stupid Question?
When the aircraft is on the ground with the engine off, the yoke "falls" to the forward position on its own. The elevator falls down due to the force of gravity and pulls the yoke to the forward position.
When the engine is on and at idle, the yoke feels lighter due to the airflow pushing the elevator upwards toward neutral trim. As power is added the elevator will move to the trimmed position and the yoke will move in accordance and feel firm.
As you change the trim setting, the yoke will move in response to the change in the elevator's position.
Once in the air, the same applies, but the forces are a little heavier. As you go faster and slower or stall the control forces will change.
Without force feedback and a properly implemented one at that, you can't get the correct feel. I would prefer to leave the self centering as it is closer to the real world than not self centering at all.
This only applies to specific aircraft BTW. The Piper Super Cub (PA-18) has a self centering spring for pitch so the stick returns to the center position on its own.
When the engine is on and at idle, the yoke feels lighter due to the airflow pushing the elevator upwards toward neutral trim. As power is added the elevator will move to the trimmed position and the yoke will move in accordance and feel firm.
As you change the trim setting, the yoke will move in response to the change in the elevator's position.
Once in the air, the same applies, but the forces are a little heavier. As you go faster and slower or stall the control forces will change.
Without force feedback and a properly implemented one at that, you can't get the correct feel. I would prefer to leave the self centering as it is closer to the real world than not self centering at all.
This only applies to specific aircraft BTW. The Piper Super Cub (PA-18) has a self centering spring for pitch so the stick returns to the center position on its own.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
Re: Stupid Question?
tecboy: Getting rid of the centering detents will do a lot to improve how the yoke feels.
In flight, the centering springs feel accurate enough on my yoke, probably on yours too. What it does on the ground will depend on the aircraft itself but this is less important than how it feels in flight.
Hook
In flight, the centering springs feel accurate enough on my yoke, probably on yours too. What it does on the ground will depend on the aircraft itself but this is less important than how it feels in flight.
Hook
Re: Stupid Question?
Hey Hook, Thanks again for your input. So im a little confused. You say its a good thing to get rid of the centering? Have you ever felt what the mod does to the yolk, the saitek yolk that is. They also say there is a dead zone in the sim, turning left and right (1/2 inch or so from center) nothing moves in the ailerons. Pulling back and forward (about a half an inch or so) yields no movement in the elevators. Just play (Dead Space) in that span, creating more movement. Is the Im not sure how the yoke feels, if its tight or if there is some play.Hook wrote:tecboy: Getting rid of the centering detents will do a lot to improve how the yoke feels.
In flight, the centering springs feel accurate enough on my yoke, probably on yours too. What it does on the ground will depend on the aircraft itself but this is less important than how it feels in flight.
Hook
Thanks for your opinion. I really appreciate it.
tec
Re: Stupid Question?
I've never used a Saitek yoke so I don't know anything about them or any possible mods. I use a CH Products yoke which has no detent. In the past I've used a yoke with a detent and found it to be a problem.
The actual amount of force it takes to move the ailerons or elevator is up to your personal preferences. Too light and it gets difficult to keep it centered. Too heavy and it gets difficult to fly. The forces on an actual Cessna 172 aren't very heavy but they do exist, not much different from my yoke. The actual feel of moving the yoke on the real plane is odd after getting used to the sim, but it won't make any real difference.
I prefer a slight dead zone in a yoke and some people say this is more realistic for the aircraft they fly. Others prefer as small a dead zone as possible, which is how I currently have my joystick set up.
In the end, there is no One Right Way. Just make it work the way you like it. I personally find the detent annoying and distracting and it keeps me from being able to use fine control near the center. This isn't a problem with a joystick, but can be with rudder pedals and for me it certainly is on a yoke.
If you want to know how the real plane works, take an introductory flying lesson. This is worthwhile in itself, and worth the cost. And you'll love it.
Hook
The actual amount of force it takes to move the ailerons or elevator is up to your personal preferences. Too light and it gets difficult to keep it centered. Too heavy and it gets difficult to fly. The forces on an actual Cessna 172 aren't very heavy but they do exist, not much different from my yoke. The actual feel of moving the yoke on the real plane is odd after getting used to the sim, but it won't make any real difference.
I prefer a slight dead zone in a yoke and some people say this is more realistic for the aircraft they fly. Others prefer as small a dead zone as possible, which is how I currently have my joystick set up.
In the end, there is no One Right Way. Just make it work the way you like it. I personally find the detent annoying and distracting and it keeps me from being able to use fine control near the center. This isn't a problem with a joystick, but can be with rudder pedals and for me it certainly is on a yoke.
If you want to know how the real plane works, take an introductory flying lesson. This is worthwhile in itself, and worth the cost. And you'll love it.
Hook
Re: Stupid Question?
The problem with saitek is that there is a notch around the center that you have to use force to get out of, its not free floating around there like for example a CH yoke is. This makes it jerky and hard to use for precise one handed input. In the case of both yokes, a small deadzone around the center would be ideal, in case of saitek to get it out of this notch without input, in case of ch to disable input until the yoke spring starts to catch again. To me ch is better, doesn't bind and stick during combined aileron/elevator motion, has no notch in the center and is overall much more smooth.
Re: Stupid Question?
Ants again guys. Knew I could get answers from real people flying real planes. I short have tried a few other boards and they all argue about the issues. Thanks to all of you for your responses.
Tec
Tec
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