Comanche ILS

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josecamoreira
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by josecamoreira »

AKar, thank you again for the explanation. I'll try.

I think you mean that I have, when the needle centers, to turn left manually and mantain tracking the localizer. Correct?

Well. But flying Cessna 172 or Piper Cherokee the situations are different. Actually, both of them find the localizer and go strait. Am I right?

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AKar
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by AKar »

Yes, you need to intercept the localizer (or VOR radial, or GPS track, as applicable) before engaging the autopilot LO TRK or HI TRK mode. Only thereon the autopilot will do the lateral tracking for you. You can do the interception by using HD mode and the heading bug, or ST mode and the turn knob. Or entirely manually, of course.

It is same with the A2A Cherokee. A2A Cessnas are different, as they use BendixKing KAP 140 autopilot, which operates differently in this regard.

-Esa

josecamoreira
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by josecamoreira »

Hi, again.

I assume that I am a beginner, and there are certain terms that I do not understand. For example, HD mode and / or ST mode. On the other hand, I consider that the interception happens when the needle moves to the center. Well, that's when I activated TRK. But the aircraft does not "obey" ...

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AKar
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by AKar »

I'm speaking of autopilot modes as shown on the face of the unit. The actual unit's manual, available here [pdf] for example, would be highly recommended reading. The unit in the simulator works identical for practical purposes. Note that it includes all the variants of this S-TEC family. When specifics come into question, it is the System Thirty that is installed in A2A Comanche and Cherokee.

In this case, I refer by interception the maneuver you need to execute to establish yourself on the localizer. That is, you should be flying on the final approach course, and be reasonably centered on the localizer before engaging the TRK mode. In practice, you want to be pretty much centered, and ±10° of your final approach course when you engage the TRK mode.

-Esa

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Orlaam
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by Orlaam »

josecamoreira wrote:Hi, Orlaam. Thanks for the help.
I've corrected the settings, but the behaviour remains, as you can see on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S008Qe13ReE

Some observations:

The fuel pump should be on for take off and landing, and for switching tanks.

RPM should be brought back to 2400 as soon as you are clear of the aerodrome, somewhere around 1000 feet AGL, and also the fuel pump off then as well.

The transponder is important, so it should be on.

RPM should be around 2000 during cruise, and actually can be brought back during normal cruise climb.

The S-TEC 30 does not have an APP mode. It also does not have a vertical tracking feature. The lateral tracking is simply designed to assist with straight or wide turning patterns. The ALT hold mode is simply a hold mode, nothing more. Think of the S-TEC 30 as a personal assistant with 10 hours under their belt. Someone you've hired and have helping for a week. Mostly clueless. HI tracking will provide LOC/VOR and GPS tracking, but you need to be on course and only slightly deviated (+/- 1 CDI or +/- 10 degrees). It won't do the work for you, it'll only help you hold what you've already set up. In reality, the S-TEC is good for heading holds and cruise operations. If you have a steep turn in your FP, your best bet is to switch to HDG and turn manually, then once on course put HI TRK back on. Personally, when it comes to ILS, the pilot should disconnect the AP completely and fly by hand. The S-TEC is not designed for approaches.
Chris J.

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josecamoreira
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by josecamoreira »

Hi, Orlaam.

Thank you again, for the tips. They are really useful, I guess. Time to forget Airbus or Boeing ILS and start learning to fly. :D

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AKar
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by AKar »

It is not a question about ILS per se, but of flight management. In your Airbuses and Boeings, the flight management is pretty much automated, and just getting one from point A to point B in simulator conditions is ridiculously easy. Flying a well-simulated GA airplane, such as A2A Comanche, you are forced to do just a little bit more work manually and in your head.

I must disagree a little with the previous post in that I personally think the A2A S-TEC is extremely helpful assistant in almost all phases of flight, if used sensibly and correctly. The reason I use it quite a lot is that in the simulator, without any fancy setups but just a joystick and throttle levers, one is somewhat handicapped in that one needs to tweak the view, use the mouse and find the commands from the keyboard. If tuning the radios, putting in radials and checking the charts for DMEs and directions while at it, it relieves quite a bit just to give the lateral control to the S-TEC every now and then.

In the simulator world, one constantly sees an issue that reportedly exists in real life as well: people attempt to force the flight to be as automated as possible, whereas it is often easier to perform stages at lesser level of automation or completely manually.

-Esa
Last edited by AKar on 06 Jul 2018, 12:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Orlaam
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by Orlaam »

AKar wrote:It is not a question about ILS per se, but of flight management. In your Airbuses and Boeings, the flight management is pretty much automated, and just getting one from point A to point B in simulator conditions is ridiculously easy. Flying a well-simulated GA airplane, such as A2A Comanche, you are forced to do just a little bit more work manually and in your head.

I must disagree a little with the previous post in that the A2A S-TEC is extremely helpful assistant in almost all phases of flight, if used sensibly and correctly. The reason I use it quite a lot is that in the simulator, without any fancy setups but just a joystick and throttle levers, one is somewhat handicapped in that one needs to tweak the view, use the mouse and find the commands from the keyboard. If tuning the radios, putting in radials and checking the charts for DMEs and directions while at it, it relieves quite a bit just to give the lateral control to the S-TEC every now and then.


In the simulator world, one constantly sees an issue that reportedly exists in real life as well: people attempt to force the flight to be as automated as possible, whereas it is often easier to perform stages at lesser level of automation or completely manually.

-Esa
I never said it was "extremely" helpful. I said it was a mostly clueless personal assistant. IOW, a helping hand with low experience, unlike a modern AP that will follow tracks with precision and much more accuracy. It does essentially lighten the workload some d/t the fact that a simulator makes certain tasks more difficult. There is no reason you can't use the S-TEC during climb or descent as long as you trim and manage power though. :wink:
Chris J.

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AKar
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by AKar »

Orlaam wrote:I never said it was "extremely" helpful. I said it was a mostly clueless personal assistant. IOW, a helping hand with low experience, unlike a modern AP that will follow tracks with precision and much more accuracy. It does essentially lighten the workload some d/t the fact that a simulator makes certain tasks more difficult. There is no reason you can't use the S-TEC during climb or descent as long as you trim and manage power though. :wink:
Never intended to propose you did say so, as that was my opinion. Wording of the post you quoted adjusted a bit. :)

But, even a modern, high-capability autopilot is rather clueless. No matter how sophisticated in their hands-off capability, they do fly you into ground if you tell them to do, no matter you intended the better. This simple S-TEC is actually a rather cool in that respect, it provides you a simple 'cruise control', but retains the flight management at pilot's responsibility. A huge training value, IMO, an introduction into real autopilots.

-Esa

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Orlaam
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Re: Comanche ILS

Post by Orlaam »

AKar wrote:
Orlaam wrote:I never said it was "extremely" helpful. I said it was a mostly clueless personal assistant. IOW, a helping hand with low experience, unlike a modern AP that will follow tracks with precision and much more accuracy. It does essentially lighten the workload some d/t the fact that a simulator makes certain tasks more difficult. There is no reason you can't use the S-TEC during climb or descent as long as you trim and manage power though. :wink:
Never intended to propose you did say so, as that was my opinion. Wording of the post you quoted adjusted a bit. :)

But, even a modern, high-capability autopilot is rather clueless. No matter how sophisticated in their hands-off capability, they do fly you into ground if you tell them to do, no matter you intended the better. This simple S-TEC is actually a rather cool in that respect, it provides you a simple 'cruise control', but retains the flight management at pilot's responsibility. A huge training value, IMO, an introduction into real autopilots.

-Esa
Oh I see, I misunderstood. :)
Chris J.

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