Crashed on first flight - doctor killer confirmed

[vdrummer]

As my first flight with the Bonanza was rather interesting, I thought I'd share it with you.

I take flight simming very seriously and treat A2A aircraft with special respect. The Bonanza is no exception. So before the first flight, I performed the walk-around and did everything according to the checklists. To my surprise, after the takeoff roll the Bonanza yawed quite heavily but I managed to stop that by putting the pedals to neutral (I didn't know about the bungee system at that point in time).
One of the first things I like to try with new planes is stall behavior because this way you can quickly see if aerodynamics are modeled well or not. So I climbed to 3000 ft AGL put the thottle to idle and pitched up. I noticed the warning sound notifying me that the gear was not down and wondered if there was a mute button for that. While thinking about the button, speed had already bled off and in order to get the speed further down to stall speed, I pulled some more on the yoke. This might have been a little too much...
The stall warning kicked in, but I kept the back pressure on the yoke. Then suddenly my right wing dropped and before I knew what was happening, I was entering a spin. I was losing altitude rapidly and tried opposite rudder and relaxing the yoke to get out of the spin but it was too late. As the ground came nearer, I thought "There's no way I'm gonna make it". About 100 ft AGL I finally managed to stop the spin but I was still in a deep dive, so all I could do was watching my beautiful new Bonanza crash into the ground...

I had never crashed an A2A aircraft, so I didn't know what it was like. Normal FSX aircraft would just bounce off the ground with the engine still running (crash settings turned off, obviously), but the Bonanza was different. First of all there were sounds I never heard before, the next thing I noticed was that the egine was stopped; the gear warning was still going. I looked out the window and noticed I had come to a stop on the ground and the prop was bent. My first thought: "Wow, I survived!". I opened the door and took a look at the outside.
I couldn't really believe what just happened. I was actually in a kind of shock state. That's how good A2A is

After resetting the flight and having a look at the maintenance hangar, prop and flaps were severly damaged and I think I had an oil leak. Given that this crash wouldn't have been survivable in real life, I decided to get a "new" used Bonanza.

This all happened within the first 5 minutes after takeoff. The "doctor killer" really lives up to its name (I am not a doctor though).
Since this flight I really treat the Bonanza with caution and I started thinking about how the ruddervator and the bungee system affects flying.

Thank you A2A for this unusual first flight experience!

PS: Unfortunately I forgot to take screenshots of the event

[EnDSchultz]

I can't imagine how you forgot to take pictures as the ground was spiraling toward you!

My experience so far has been that it will almost always want to spin to the right. It takes a LOT of work currently to get it to spin left. Somehow I doubt that is entirely accurate, but then, based on what I've seen, I also wouldn't blame A2A if they didn't do a huge amount of stall testing to get it just right!

Or it might also be some sort of compromise to get the flight characteristics of the flight model overall correct. I seem to recall some concessions had to be made on the T-6 spin behavior so that other quirks would manifest correctly, for example.

[Tailspin45]

A poor craftsman blames his tools.

[Calypte]

I've testes slow flight and power on stall today on my first flight and with the same result crashed and burned.

To be honest - I did not think it over before and my actions were far from perfect, but being used to stall characteristics of C172 I have not expect anything like this. I lost 7500 feet in almost exactly one minute before this beautiful plane crashed.

https://youtu.be/MZlhbMP6n6Y?t=51m6s

It's time to do some more reading before I fly it again.

[Tailspin45]

Happy to help if I can. Something's not right and I don't think it's you.
I suspect there's something wrong with your rig or the A2A flight model.
You would really have to abuse the aircraft to #1 spin it and #2 not recover from 7500 feet.

Stall entry: slow deceleration from level flight, right?
That is, from cruise or slow flight, power back, hold the nose where it is on the horizon, ball in the middle, wait until it stalls. Then release the back pressure and slowly add power to recover. Ball in the middle. Yes? Same for power on, but the nose will be a little higher and deceleration slower.

Yank the nose way up into a whip-stall or hammerhead (which you didn't), ball all out of whack (which you did), and it will spin. Any aircraft will. Botch the recovery and even a Cub can kill you (but just barely).

In any case, recovery is the same for most aircraft. Power to idle. Reduce the angle of attack (yoke forward but not violently), opposite rudder and hold it until rotation stops then slowly bring the nose up. Don't yank or you may induce another spin.

No indication you did anything wrong but I couldn't see what control inputs you applied after it stalled/spun, but you had plenty of airspeed and the rotation did stop. So, as I said, somethings not right. It could, after all, be a problem with flight model.

Happy to go into more depth or even do a Skype multiplayer session with you and talk you through it if your English is better than my Polish (nill).

But first you need to make sure your setup is correct. Meanwhile, I'll try to reproduce the experience

[n421nj]

I thought it was called the dr killer cuz they would put their golf clubs in the back and obstruct the cables for elevator control?

[Tailspin45]

No, the cables run under the floor

[Calypte]

Thanks for your response.

Something's not right and I don't think it's you.

Quite sure it was, in fact, me

I did some training in C172 and then tried Bonanza again (couldn't stand a crash...). With a more decisive (or even aggressive) response the result was much better - no crashes, recovered every time in 1000 feet, maybe 1500 ft at most (I still have to review the video).

But I noticed something that may be a factor here - trimming. Slow flight in Bonanza requires serious nose up trim. In the sim that causes pitching moment that will not be felt on the joystick. So while I released the back pressure, which is just fine in the 172, it is not enough for a trimmed Bonanza. Putting forward pressure helped a lot. And I mean a lot of forward pressure.

[EnDSchultz]

I did notice that. Needs a lot of forward pressure to recover and you'll probably end up slightly inverted. Have to pull quite a few G's to recover without exceeding Vne.

[bmbrzmn101]

Vdrummer, I did the same maneuver you did with the stall on my first full flight. Only differences were altitude and outcome. I took her up to 6500 agl and and closed the throttle. Resisted the urge to use ailerons on keeping her wings level when a very abrupt and semi violent rt spin developed.
I kept throttle closed and kicked lt rudder(too hard, btw) and forgot to ease up and center the yoke. Spin increased. Finally pushed yoke slightly forward, eased into lt rudder and waited for the aircraft to return to a neutral state (a second maybe) and then eased back on the yoke and slowly added power. I came out approx 2900 agl. Poor technique on my part recognizing the problem I got into. But yes, my palms got sweaty and my heart was racing as I climbed back to altitude to see her qualities. My only wish for the aircraft would be supplementary o2 , and aftermarket turbos to be added. Much like the Tornado Alley Turbo system for high altitude and high DA use. My night landing in her are also better than my day landings. Go figure. Keep enjoying and keep flying!


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[LZ-WIL]

Hello guys,

I have realized after few short flights in the V35, that she has more in common with the P-51 than the Cessnas in relation to stability and maneuverability. I remember the first time I spun the P-51, I could not recover and crashed. Haven't tried to spin the Bo yet, looks very scary from Calypte video btw.

Cheerz,
Vladimir