Video showing VRS TacPac: what could it mean for A2A planes?

[Daube]

Hi all,

VRS, creators of the famous SuperHornet for FS9 and FSX, have published a video showing their upcoming addon, TacpPac, that will bring combat features in FSX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfE_4JzwR4

There's one information that is extremely interesting: they will provide a SDK which will allow to add combat capability to other aircrafts.
I'm not really referring to missiles here, but how cool would it be to add canons, rockets and bombs to the P-47, Spitfire, Mustang, Corsair etc... ? Especially with the Accusim ones !

I was wondering if the A2A devs were aware of this, and if they were planning any special action concerning the upcoming F-104 and Phantom for example ?

[CodyValkyrie]

Actually, I work pretty closely with both VRS and A2A and made said video. Who knows what the future will bring. A2A and VRS HAVE however already worked together in the past, as VRS licensed the 3D Lights from A2A as well as hired A2A to create a custom sound pack for the FSX Superbug.

I'll try to keep in Scott's ear, but honestly, this is THEIR show to run.

[badaboom]

Hmmmm.Interesting.A TacPac for The New Upcoming F-4 Phantom would be really sweet!!

[CAPFlyer]

One quick note, VRS may be the first to make a commercial implementations of what they're talking about, but several people have been working on this kind of technology and demonstrating it for almost a year now on the freeware side for several virtual militaries as they begin to transition full-time to FSX. Cody, if you want direct references I should be able to get them for you, but I just wanted to get out in front of this because some of the guys involved in the freeware efforts might be a bit offended to hear their efforts snubbed by VRS's marketing because it was their SuperBug that made them want to take it a step further.

[CodyValkyrie]

I'm VERY familiar with some of the freeware work that has been accomplished CAP. From Jon Blum, owner of VRS regarding at least one freeware project that almost turned commercial:

Um I better set the record straight here I talked to Daniel Berlin over there about mid-2009, and we were definately interesting in working together at the time, but he had since fallen off the radar and I never heard from him again. I believe he was quite busy with his real job at the time and was even preparing to move, so frankly I don't know what happened to him.

In any event the TacPack was developed 100% in-house. It's something we wanted, and it's something we built from scratch. So please, let's not get any ridiculous rumors going here folks Once again, Daniel Berlin and VRS never worked together or shared any assets - period. End of rumor.

This quote is in reference to a video that was released over a year ago that featured similar technology which was widely distributed in video form on many popular websites. It is unfortunate that said person(s) have since disappeared in regards to it's development. While I do not discredit what the freeware groups are doing, Jon/VRS is doing some amazing work that I feel is pushing the limits of FSX very far, in new ways, just as Scott and company has done with systems management with Accusim.

There have been many attempts to emulate what Accusim has effectively done, but I don't hear many people complaining about that from the freeware side.

I digress.

Having known Jon for quite a while, I don't think it was ever his intention to "snub" any freeware groups. It was also never planned from the beginning to take the course it has to my knowledge. It came from demand from his customers to see such systems fully implemented.

[Ishigami]

I just surfed to the VRS homepage to check the forums and was surprised to see the information page for the TacPack and overjoyed about the announcement of this Drop-In-system and especially SDK.

I always hopped that VRS would make the TacPack available for other developers and seeing it is even RF I believe it will be quite a bargain if you consider that you can rather “easily” (I know) add a lot of value to your products.

An AccuSim F4 Phantom II or F-104 Starfighter with TacPack... I mean that would hardly leave any wishes open!

And then there is the Aerosoft F-16 which could receive an Update (that could also fix some other things) and the upcoming F-14A Tomcat that may have a chance pick it up still in the development cycle.

And even if not thanks to the Drop-In-system the costumer might still get more out of other products that have no native support for the TacPack. Flying realistically from A to C in a war bird is fine, but blowing something up at B is better.

Looks like we got a Combat Flight Simulator 4.

[CAPFlyer]

Having known Jon for quite a while, I don't think it was ever his intention to "snub" any freeware groups. It was also never planned from the beginning to take the course it has to my knowledge. It came from demand from his customers to see such systems fully implemented.

I know that his intention isn't to snub any freeware work. My issue is with the comments you put under the video (aka the marketing) -

The TacPack is the first true full air-to-air and air-to-ground combat modification for FSX.

What is "true full"? The system under development at the vUSAF could be considered "true full" and has been working and in use for 6 months. It's constantly being expanded.

You'll be able to dogfight your friends in multiplayer, take out SAM and AAA, or bomb a hostile airfield - all in free-flight.

Again, to a large extent, this has already been done in the above implementation, including guided AG weapons.

That's what I'm asking for VRS to be careful of in their marketing because making such broad claims opens them to snubbing the equally intensive work of other developers who don't have the marketing resources and commercial success of VRS but are just as deserving of the claim of being one of the first (not "the" first) to add this kind of capability to FSX. Add to that the UK Weapons Pack that has been available since less than 6 months after the release of FSX that I think laid the groundwork for what can be done in FSX, I think to make a broad-base claim like that is inappropriate and I would like to see it changed before it pushes away guys who are working on their own dime to produce stuff for the community.

I guess it comes back to the point that I don't want VRS to become another PMDG (especially now that VRS is marketing with PMDG) with heavy handed marketing tactics that tend to turn freeware guys off of developing further rather than wanting to continue offering their stuff because they know their work will be respected, especially when they start running up the price point like PMDG did with their MD-11.

[CodyValkyrie]

Mate, I think this is a subject that is indeed close to your heart. The system as shown in the video, and as advertised works as such. No tricks, and it works with all of the systems in the Superbug as defined by the NATOPS manuals, among other numerous sources. This system when the SDK is released will also allow developers to implement this capability into their own aircraft and it's associated systems.

I, like yourself have a dog in the fight. Jon has worked for numerous years on the Superbug, driving the development completely by himself at times. It is a work of love, and after many years of work, he and his few employees have the right to be paid for it if they choose to do so. My role is that of a friend and occasional business partner, helping him advertise his products. I have even had dinner many times with his family.

I think the marketing for the video is accurate. These systems, associated weapons are fully modeled with their own aerodynamics, tracking systems, correct launching sequences (the missile actually detaches from the aircraft and then begins to track it's intended target, then can eliminate the target or cause damage, etc) among numerous other parameters plus can be utilized in a multiplayer environment. There is not a single system out there that accurately handles all of this, for all systems with the logic and coding. This is not a slight at any freeware developers, but I think the reality speaks for itself that Jon has access to his own internal modeling/coding while nobody else does. When the SDK is released, developers will be able to take full advantage of these benefits on their models should they see fit. This goes far beyond a simple replacement of a HUD or a gauge, but is a back door access that allows deep penetration while keeping the developers systems in tack. All of this works is literally tens of thousands of lines of code with hundreds of man hours to craft.

There is not a system out there that can do what I described above. This is not about "marketing resources and commercial success," this is about having access to the internal source material and then developing the software/systems from that for a "true air-to-air and air-to-ground" experience. This system is becoming so advanced that Phase II of the project will feature AI wingmen and aggressors among other details, virtually transforming FSX into a military combat simulation with unlimited campaign designs.

I am sorry you feel the way you do about PMDG. I have worked for PMDG and many developers in the FS community. I choose to only work for developers I feel are crafting quality products, and PMDG has not provided any reason to prove otherwise to me.

What the freeware developers have offered still has an important place regardless of the success of the TacPac. There are going to be many aircraft and developers who likely will not take advantage of the new features offered by said SDK. As such, these freeware developers have an opportunity to design their success as they see fit, and they should get the credit they deserve for this work.

You and I may not necessarily agree on this but I think you can even agree that what VRS is doing is just as revolutionary as Accusim has become, virtually transforming how people are utilizing FSX. There is some serious potential here.

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

Definitely it looks very intriguing.Would love to have FSX (or the upcoming Microsoft Flight) transformed into a full fledged combat flight simulator.Scott and his employees would have to get working someday on a full fledged Norden Bomb Sight add on enhancement for the accusim B-17.

[CAPFlyer]

Cody, don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that the VRS TacPac doesn't work as claimed, doesn't do it per the books, or anything else. I'm just saying that some of the statements are vague enough to cause conflict with the fact that there are existing packages that are publically known that do Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground and do show damage on other user's aircraft and allow Air-To-Air and Fragmentation damage over a multiplayer connection (i.e. if you shoot the other guy he gets damaged, if you fly through his bomb's blast or your own, you get damaged). The claim that VRS is the first to do that is thus, not correct. The claim that VRS is the first to do it commercially is, the claim that VRS is the first to do it with everything else is correct, but the vague "first to allow A-A and A-G over multiplayer" isn't.

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

It's now mentioned at Sim HQ's site.
http://www.simhq.com/

[CodyValkyrie]

Fair enough mate, I see your point after some thought.

[CAPFlyer]

BTW, just to make it clear - the SuperBug and TacPac will probably be one of the first purchases I make once I get my new computer built. It just looks like too much fun to pass up no matter where it comes from.

[Bramage]

i ogt to say that that video was pretty sweet and ive been waiting for something like this. I would think it would be cooler if a2a were to come out with their own tacpack where we have working guns and can shoot down planes and to make it even cooler would to have an AI aircraft package that has period aircraft from the day and if you were to be flying over germany or france there can be flak sites. probably alot to do but think it would be something really cool for us PROP guys