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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:23 am 
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Air Repair Ince is currently casting brand-new cases for Jacobs R-755 radial engines, many of which are used in the new Waco YMF-5D biplane. With around 400 DC-3/C-47's still in operation today (lets say 380 are powered by the Wright Cyclone 9), that means that there are at least 760 R-1830's still in use, with the parts to keep them running for now. Your example of the R-3350 wasn't the best, for its poor reliability gave the Constellation the title 'greatest three-engined airplane ever made'; the Duplex Cyclone's reliability and complexity has been the major contributing cause to the DC-7's limited use after mainline retirement, as opposed to the DC-6's wide service today. With so many DC-3's still in existance, and with it being almost certain that there will be a couple hundred still in use past their 100th birthdays, I'd say that a company like Air Repair may begin manufacturing new cases and other parts for the R-1830, for it would be a very, very lucrative product for that company, and the expense of new R1830's would be much less for any operator than a $6.5 Million to have two PT6's slapped on.

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Actually the issues today, I was getting at, are the computer control of everything. 99% unnecessary in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:10 pm 
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robert41 wrote:
Actually the issues today, I was getting at, are the computer control of everything. 99% unnecessary in my opinion.


The best tool pilots have today is the autopilot; no question asked, in my opinion. Although the skill and concentration required to hand fly an airplane is necessary, that doesn't mean that it should be the main method of flying airplanes, or rather ones any bigger than perhaps a piston twin. Yes, we flew planes in the past with stick and rudder the entire time, and we trimmed instead of autopilot. But in 1914, when Lawrence Sperry successfully demonstrated the autopilot, it was the greatest safety innovation to ever hit aviation. Why? Well, because the autopilot fly the plane the way you tell it to: tracking a heading, holding altitude, making precision turns, and in turn easing teh job of the pilot. With automation, flying becomes safer, because the pilot isn't in the constant state of trimming the plane, and making sure everything is on course. With this excellent device of automation, pilots can concentrate on navigation, aircraft systems, and passenger comfort. Because having a long flight without an autopilot is exhausting, and the climb, cruise, and even descent are times that don't require the tiring hands-on approach. Again with automation, we achieve a higher level of efficiency, as systems are able to manage themselves better, plan out turns, climbs, descents, and perform all those with an unvaried precision. Another great feature of automation for airliners, is the auto land. Although usually only used in IMC conditions (for the most part, although pilots will practice it for proficiency) it allow a precision approach to be flown, so the airplane and its cargo can fly below normal minimums, and safely land.

Computers controlling flight controls in fly-by-wire airplanes enable the airplane to be built more aerodynamically (and thus unstable, but FBW gives back the stability) and allows for the utilization of different technologies that make efficiency, comfort, and speed safer, and easier to do. The fly-by-wire system also allows the airplane to keep itself from entering unsafe situations and maneuvers, which is always a good thing. The 'logic' between Boeing and Airbus is different, but achieves the same affect of safety and efficiency. There are many who argue that many of the ways by which Airbus implements its systems aren't the optimal ones, but the frequency in which an event occurs that would be due to such technologies is so small, that it has happened probably only five times, out of millions upon millions of flights, and not each incident results in fatalities.

The computers used to control systems on commercial airliners are hardly a computer in the sense we know them; they aren't Windows 7 powered computers that crash, reboot, install updates, or turn off on you. These are very heavy-duty, nearly indestructible, proven machines that have received FAA approval (which is the greatest challenge in aviation), and there isn't just one computer, there's three, or five. So if you're afraid of computers screwing up, don't be, there shouldn't be an iota of worry in your system. Again, there are those who argue that modern commercial airline pilots barely fly, and that computers do the whole spiel. Well, pilots still do the takeoff (and always will), they do the landing almost all the time, and they go to recurrent training every nine months where they fly in simulators that make them fly hands on; perhaps you wouldn't want them stepping right into a C-46 without training, but they aren’t useless sacks of water, they are skilled professionals. Automation is our friend, a synonym to safety, and it is by no means, unnecessary.

And for all those emissions standard, the ones we have seen prior to 2010 aren't by any means pointless, they are taking technology that does exist, and makign cars cleaner and more effecient. i don't think anything is more disgusting on the road than a big rig spewing all that diesel exhaust into the air. Cleaning up diesel has proved to help improve power, mileage, and it makes oru air cleaner. I personally don't believe in all this global warming 'B.S' (my opinion), but I don't have any objection, and rather I support the gradual cleaning of our new machines, if we can, why not? Cleaner is better no matter what!

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Automation also helps in another way...with the use of an autopilot, some quick calculations for windspeed and direction, and a simple alarm clock, a solo pilot can fly long distances whilst catching up on some much needed sleep...thereby maintaining much better alertness in the landing phase.

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Killratio wrote:
Automation also helps in another way...with the use of an autopilot, some quick calculations for windspeed and direction, and a simple alarm clock, a solo pilot can fly long distances whilst catching up on some much needed sleep...thereby maintaining much better alertness in the landing phase.


Hold on a sec...

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Killratio wrote:
Automation also helps in another way...with the use of an autopilot, some quick calculations for windspeed and direction, and a simple alarm clock, a solo pilot can fly long distances whilst catching up on some much needed sleep...thereby maintaining much better alertness in the landing phase.

I've know a few Caravan, B1900, PC-12, Metro pilots who have done this.

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:58 am 
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pjc747 wrote:
Automation is our friend, a synonym to safety, and it is by no means, unnecessary.


Dude, really? Tell that to the crew and passengers of China Airlines Flight 140 and the crew of the Air France demo flight that went into the trees in Toulouse for starters. "Automation" was the cause of both accidents - bad design by the manufacturer that decided automation was smarter than the trained human brain behind the stick and could do the job no matter what.

Quote:
And for all those emissions standard, the ones we have seen prior to 2010 aren't by any means pointless, they are taking technology that does exist, and makign cars cleaner and more effecient. i don't think anything is more disgusting on the road than a big rig spewing all that diesel exhaust into the air. Cleaning up diesel has proved to help improve power, mileage, and it makes oru air cleaner. I personally don't believe in all this global warming 'B.S' (my opinion), but I don't have any objection, and rather I support the gradual cleaning of our new machines, if we can, why not? Cleaner is better no matter what!
(Emphasis added)

Not when it reduces fuel efficiency. The Catalytic Converter for example, while it makes the car cleaner in certain ways, it reduces fuel efficiency by up to 10%. The use of 20+ fuel blends by the EPA changes fuel efficiency by up to 10% between winter and summer and up to 5% between areas (Winter blends typically get better fuel efficiency than summer blends which are overall less energetic requiring more fuel to achieve the required operating temperatures for the catalytic converter, which is the driving force behind engine fuel charts). Not when the changing of standards every 6 months means that car manufacturers are hesitant to fund development of new engines that take full advantage of blends and requirements because they're afraid they'll go back the other way or in a different direction before they can get that engine out.

Oh, and BTW, ULS Diesel has NOT made the rigs more powerful or given improved fuel mileage. In fact, because of the additives required to properly lubricate the engines, it's increased costs significantly more than the cost at the pump for operators and has hurt significantly power and fuel mileage on engines built before 2007 which are not designed to run ULS Diesel. Even those engines designed to run ULS diesel are generally less efficient because more power is lost lubricating the engine due to the loss of fuel lubricity.

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:14 pm 
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CAP, once again, you need to do research before you spout complete tripe.

The A320 crash at Paris was crew error. They hadn't set the correct mode, in spite of being trained and the correct indications being shown by the aircraft displays.

Yes, the design of the cockpit displays was changed to make it MORE obvious which mode the aircraft was in, but it wasn't automation that crashed the aircraft, it was human misuse of automation.

China Airlines 140 was caused by the crew attempting to correct the co-pilot's selection of TOGA during the landing phase - and the resulting overcorrection resulted in the accident.

So... Automation caused the accidents? No. Human error did in both occasions. Neither were "bad design by the manufacturer that decided automation was smarter than the trained human brain behind the stick and could do the job no matter what", both were human pilots misusing the equipment.

I'm not getting into a debate with you, because you'll never admit you are wrong. You are, however, wrong. Again.

Ian P.


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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Thanks Ian!

CAP, using the catalytic converter isn't a very good example,because although fuel effeciency goes down, the c.c filters out all of the polluting crap that comes out of the tailpipe. The new 2007 standard is good though, because although fuel effeciency was better, the measure of all the harmful chemicals was much higher; plus, these standards have required manufacturers to invest in making more effecient engines, which is good. Before, the development of engien technology was very, very stale, and with the new effeciency standards, they have been able to get better mpg, lower toxic emissions (toxic to humans, remember), and improved power. I remember looking at diesel pickups a few years back, and the F-250 had something like 500ft-lb of torqe (or less) in 2007, and by 2011, it had 800; this coincided with emissions standards. Now Obama wanting 65 mpg by 2025 or something is insane, but medium progression is good.

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
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I agree computers have helped in aircraft/pilot efficiency. No doubt. And yes, I do want less polluting, more fuel efficient engines.

But right now, at least with diesel engines, we are at a point like autos were in the 1970s. A lot of old school mixed with new tech. It is going to take some time for designers to get it right.

The original poster asked about producing an old aircraft engine, today, with today's technology. Would it be better or worse?


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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:13 pm 
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http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080002339_2008001670.pdf

Here's something I came across and thought it fit the original discussion. Some future ideas of NASA....

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 Post subject: Re: What if -wondering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:40 pm 
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I have a friend who is currently working on a redesign of the F4U Corsair.
He had aquired a set of the original plans for the plane, made copies of it, and had redesigned the nose of the aircraft,
he is makeing the aircraft nose to house an Allison T56-A-15 turboprop, the same engine used on the C130.
Not sure how this will work, but he is very intent on giving it a try.


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