Anyone still have the PMDG MD-11?

[Paul K]

There have been repeated calls on Avsim for the MD-11 to be updated, or at least made compatible with P3D, but for reasons that I don't fully understand, PMDG is emphatic that this will never happen.

Their official explanation (in posts on Avsim) is that the MD-11 was a massive sales disappointment - a "cult" airplane that has a passionate but very small following - and that they took a big financial hit on it. So they've decided not to invest anything more in its development.

Hi Alan - yes, it didn't sell very well, but why forbid existing owners from running it in 32-bit P3D ? What would it take to produce an installer, or at least allow a public discussion of how that can be accomplished? I love PMDG, and hold Robert Randazzo in the very highest regard, but with other developers updating their ranges ( including their older models ), I've never understood why the same can't be done for the MD-11. I've read the reasons on their Avsim forum but none of it seems to ring true with me.

All power to PMDG's elbow in everything else they do, however - superb products, without a doubt.

[Alan_A]

Hi Alan - yes, it didn't sell very well, but why forbid existing owners from running it in 32-bit P3D ? What would it take to produce an installer, or at least allow a public discussion of how that can be accomplished?

I'm going to guess - pure speculation this time - that they don't want to carry the support costs. Which would make sense from a purely rational, financial perspective. But there's more to life than that, especially in a customer-facing business. Think of the goodwill they'd generate if they found a way to keep it going. Might even help them sell a few more (and more profitable) airplanes at some future point...

[Paul K]

I'm going to guess - pure speculation this time - that they don't want to carry the support costs. Which would make sense from a purely rational, financial perspective. But there's more to life than that, especially in a customer-facing business. Think of the goodwill they'd generate if they found a way to keep it going. Might even help them sell a few more (and more profitable) airplanes at some future point...

Yep, agreed. I am told that the boxed MD-11 will run in 32-bit P3D, but I'd rather have the 'official' sanction before attempting it. Ah well...plenty of other aircraft to be getting on with.

[Roadburner426]

I think it would need to be completely revamped anyway and not just ported. One of their other points of discontinuing sales is that it is not up to par with what the community expects. Which appearance wise is pretty true. The stock exterior textures are definitely a little so so. The Mcphat textures helped with that immensely, but the VC textures are worlds different from todays high definition photo realistic textures. Plus I imagine the coding isn't as streamlined as todays birds, so that probably would need a good going through. So at that point you may as well just redo the entire aircraft. I had to dig through my purchase receipts to see when I actually bought it, and I bought the old girl all the way back in 2008. Funny enough the aircraft I bought before that was the 377 with Accu-sim. Crazy how things have changed in almost a decade now just within the FSX time frame.

[Alan_A]

@Roadburner - good points about the graphics and the coding. It's interesting how graphics that used to be cutting-edge suddenly turn out not to be. Things move on. A few weeks ago I read that Aerosoft was thinking about an updated Twin Otter. They mentioned the cockpit graphics as one of the features they'd like to update. The current one is one of my favorites, but I'd been away from it for a while. I loaded it up... and had to admit that the VC had fallen maybe a half-step behind. Came as a bit of a surprise, but there it was. So, yes, something like the PMDG MD-11 would probably need a graphics overhaul and refreshed code, too, and we're probably not going to see them do that.

[Aymi]

There have been repeated calls on Avsim for the MD-11 to be updated, or at least made compatible with P3D, but for reasons that I don't fully understand, PMDG is emphatic that this will never happen.

Their official explanation (in posts on Avsim) is that the MD-11 was a massive sales disappointment - a "cult" airplane that has a passionate but very small following - and that they took a big financial hit on it. So they've decided not to invest anything more in its development.

Yet they made a DC6 and are upgrading the JS4100 ...

Also I remember that someone on Avsim did an overhauled HD cockpit texture package for free but PMDG made him destroy everything...

[Mickel]

All this talk made me go fly it again... Yep, the cockpit is a bit outdated, but it's serviceable enough. It only gets away with it because it's an MD-11.

[HighBypass]

PMDG created their DC-6 due to Capt. Randazzo's say so. A more serious note was I believe that PMDG said they wanted to do something which didn't have such deeply integrated systems as a modern airliner. DC-6 was all steam gauges and separate systems as you all know. Much like the A2A Connie - flying the bird is a team effort.

[Paul K]

I think it would need to be completely revamped anyway and not just ported.

Not in order to make it installable in P3Dv3 - that wouldn't require a complete revamp. The majority of people who own the MD-11 for FSX, myself included, simply want to be able to use it in 32-bit Prepar3d.

In a similar vein, there is one well known and long-established developer who is still selling, at full price, what amounts to little more than port-overs from FS9 to FSX. Their product descriptions, in some instances, border on mis-selling. In one package, a certain variant lacks a cockpit canopy, and while the original model files are no longer available to rectify, it stays on sale in spite of that unadvertised defect. In Britain, I think the legal term is 'of non-merchantable quality'. People still buy it, and other early port-overs in that developer's product range, at premium prices.

All of which brings me back to your point - PMDG could keep the MD-11 at the front of their store, even without major texture updates. As long as it all functioned, and the buyer knew what he or she was getting - as long as PMDG were open and honest about any shortcomings ( and of course they would be, beyond any doubt ) - then the MD-11 is just as merchantable as those of the developer mentioned above.

I just don't understand the rationale behind taking the MD-11 off sale, when so many people would still like to buy it.

[Alan_A]

PMDG created their DC-6 due to Capt. Randazzo's say so. A more serious note was I believe that PMDG said they wanted to do something which didn't have such deeply integrated systems as a modern airliner. DC-6 was all steam gauges and separate systems as you all know. Much like the A2A Connie - flying the bird is a team effort.

Well, the further official explanation (am just passing this along - retweets do not equal endorsements) is that they opted for the DC-6 as a non-FMC airplane because its primary role was to be a development platform for X-Plane. They wanted to learn what was involved in creating an X-Plane aircraft without the added complexity of creating the computer guidance. They said that sales were a secondary goal, which makes the DC-6 different from the MD-11.

What I find harder to credit is that, having developed and sold the DC-6 to X-Plane 10 users, they now seem to be saying that they won't update it for X-Plane 11. That's odd, given that the DC-6 appeared very late in the X-Plane 10 life cycle, and most developers seem to stretch their aircraft across two X-Plane versions. PMDG is operating with the "letter of the law" - no updates were promised or implied - but it's not exactly optimal customer relations.

As an aside, the P3D/FSX version of the DC-6 could use a couple of tweaks, too.

Sorry for the OT, but maybe this sheds some more light on their position re: the MD-11.

I'd be more willing to put my money on TFDi for an MD-11 at this point.

[Paul K]

I know next to nothing about TDFi, but will now keep a watch.

[chadryan]

Rotate is making an MD-11 for X-Plane right now. Likely not quite PMDG quality it should be interesting. Their Mad Dog is really good.


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[Alan_A]

About TFDi - I own the 717 but haven't installed it. I bought it on release, but the release was premature by TFDi's own admission. I understand they've done a very good job of updating and enhancing it - I never managed to catch up with it (have had a few distractions from simming over the past year) but probably should. There are some reports that it's hard on performance, at least on some systems, but it's got a following. I think on balance they'd be good at an MD-11. Maybe an active 717 owner can comment.

[CAPFlyer]

I've been flying the 717 a bit lately and it's on par with any of the other major payware addons in terms of performance and such. Hand flying is a joy though. It doesn't show any of the bad habits that some of the older DC-9 and other "flying surface" addons have had with extreme delay in response or being hard to trim.

[Alan_A]

@CAPFlyer - you had me at "hand flying."

Will definitely try it out now.