P-51 belly landing vid

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Killratio
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by Killratio »

I really "enjoyed" watching and listening to this!!

I've never had a complete failure but I have had a partial/intermittent failure and I found two comments in the video really hit home to me...

1. They are more dangerous in many ways than a complete failure IF the pilot can't make that jump backwards and forwards.

2. "Wishing is not a strategy".

I'm still here, so I didn't do too much wrong but it is interesting to note that I always spent at least 15 minutes a month doing a couple of practice forced landings all through the time I flew. I'd also done a couple of dead-stick landings (it is nice sometimes to have an instructor who is prepared to break the right rules) so the thought of the prop sitting in front of me stationary at some stage wasn't "extra" frightening.

In the end I made the aerodrome and landed safely (I DID do a high approach and treated it as a full "glide" approach even though I had an engine that seemed to be fine at that point).

On 1... I have, since that day, believed this but never heard anyone else say it outright before.

On 2....I certainly "wished" that the engine would keep running but at NO point after it started to give trouble did I assume that it wouldn't quit altogether...and acted accordingly.

(The aircraft BTW was a 172R)
<Sent from my 1988 Sony Walkman with Dolby Noise Reduction and 24" earphone cord extension>


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Piper_EEWL
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by Piper_EEWL »

That’s some amazing footage and a great analysis of the incident. It’s very interesting to see how the pilot responds to the partial engine failure trying to make it to the field just like anyone would have but then making that split decision to break the left turn and put the Mustang in a field. I’m sure that saved his live and probably the lives of some people in that motorway. Great airmanship in my opinion.

Thanks for posting the video guys.

I wonder what the cause of the engine failure was. I watched the clip again on my laptop and it looks like everytime the engine quits the fuel pressure goes low. Or is that a subsequent thing to happen?
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by Mickel »

Fascinating watch, thanks Scott. I'll have to find time for the 30 minute version.
Killratio wrote: I'd also done a couple of dead-stick landings (it is nice sometimes to have an instructor who is prepared to break the right rules) so the thought of the prop sitting in front of me stationary at some stage wasn't "extra" frightening.
I (fortunately) never suffered any emergency while flying. However my CFI did something similar in our last check ride before sitting our PPL test. Took us up to 7 or 8k' in the training area in a C-152 aerobat (we had no overhead airspace that wasn't controlled by our local Class D tower :) ) and stopped the engine - first wound the mixture to full lean and turned off the keys. Prop kept turning, simply from airspeed. Then eased back. The prop stopped as the airspeed came off. Then turned the keys to both, mixture rich and nosed over, down, down, down... Eventually the engine flicked a couple of turns then started. And then he said look how much altitude we lost, if that ever happens... find a field. Then we climbed up again, headed back to the airport and did a dead-stick landing. My approach was from over the sea, with a 100' cliff to the water at my end of the runway. I made damn sure I aimed well down it - it was 1,200m so I was in no danger of running out. Gets awfully quiet at landing speed...
Cub, Cherokee, Comanche, Civvie 'stang, P-40, B-377 COTS, Spitfire, Connie, T-6, C-172, C-182, D-III, Anson, F4U

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Scott - A2A
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by Scott - A2A »

pjc747 wrote:I don't know when an engine-out landing in any single, apart from a motor glider, could be described as routine.
All private pilots should receive training on how to land an aircraft after a failed engine when in the pattern before getting their private. So when he was in downwind he was just going through a routine engine out landing. My point was, that while we train for things like this, we're human and unexpected things happen. It's in that moment after realizing he couldn't make that turn, he made the very smart (and quick) decision to just put it down in the field straight ahead. And it all happened so fast. In that moment, no checklists would have saved him (not saying emergency check lists aren't very important), just seat of the pants flying and decision making.

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Medtner
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by Medtner »

Scott - A2A wrote:
pjc747 wrote:I don't know when an engine-out landing in any single, apart from a motor glider, could be described as routine.
All private pilots should receive training on how to land an aircraft after a failed engine when in the pattern before getting their private. So when he was in downwind he was just going through a routine engine out landing. My point was, that while we train for things like this, we're human and unexpected things happen. It's in that moment after realizing he couldn't make that turn, he made the very smart (and quick) decision to just put it down in the field straight ahead. And it all happened so fast. In that moment, no checklists would have saved him (not saying emergency check lists aren't very important), just seat of the pants flying and decision making.

Scott.
That decision to not keep up the turn to the runway was critical, and to me it speaks to an intuitive understanding of the physics behind flight. There isn't time to make a rational judgement in those seconds, and that decision would likely have killed a pilot with only a theoretic understanding of the physics. The seat of the pants-thing is a major component - him feeling how the flight controls behave in slow flight, the sounds (he mentions the gun ports functioning as an early stall horn), and so forth are all contributing. Also knowing the physics of taildragger into field, prefering a short skid across the corn VS a topling over on the back.

Fantastic video, and everybody should watch the 30 minute discussion. There is a bit of after-the-fact filling out blanks where there were instincts and good training doing the job, but the gist is fantastic. And how lovely to hear that the plane is coming back, restored.

Now, what did the engine suffer from, I'm wondering...
Erik Haugan Aasland,

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(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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DHenriques_
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by DHenriques_ »

Scott - A2A wrote:
pjc747 wrote:I don't know when an engine-out landing in any single, apart from a motor glider, could be described as routine.
All private pilots should receive training on how to land an aircraft after a failed engine when in the pattern before getting their private. So when he was in downwind he was just going through a routine engine out landing. My point was, that while we train for things like this, we're human and unexpected things happen. It's in that moment after realizing he couldn't make that turn, he made the very smart (and quick) decision to just put it down in the field straight ahead. And it all happened so fast. In that moment, no checklists would have saved him (not saying emergency check lists aren't very important), just seat of the pants flying and decision making.

Scott.
Squared on what Scott is saying here. I never soloed a student without first having them do power off landings from a key position.
From a human factors position, emergency engine out checklists from low altitude I taught as flow pattern left to right. No time for the written list. It's direction flow/touch/ verify/action
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Re: P-51 belly landing vid

Post by clarkejw »

When I did my flight test, the CFI who was conducting it, commended me on my forced landing. Whilst I was flattered, it was something that I took, and still do take, very seriously. I have had two engine faliures, both in Tiger Moths. The first was on takeoff, at about 300 feet, when the crankshaft snapped. From very noisy to total silence in a fraction of a second, was very, very, scary! The forced landing in the side yard of the house over the road from the aerodrome, Luskintyre, NSW, surprised the lady of the house to have an aeroplane arrive, but, due to good instruction and practice, the aeroplane wsn undamaged, apart froma totally ruined engine.
The second, was a partial failure, when the rocker pedestal bolts on No4 cylinder sheared off, resulting in almost uncontollable rough running, so much so, thst holding ths stick was nearly impossible, it was shaking so much. Fortunately, there was a gliding field not too far away, that we made with comparative ease, with the engine seemingly trying to vibrate itself out of its mounts.
On both occasions I give thanks to my instructor, who drilled into me the importance of regular forced-landing practice.
On reflection, the partial failure was the more scary, but possible because it lasted longer then the 20 seconds or so of the snapped crankshaft!

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