Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

He was just a few miles away from my house.
At least he didn't do a 9/11 thing and fly into a building or something like the Seattle Space Needle.
It also shows how useful that 10 year background check of his was worth.
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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

Someone online was at SEA today and said it was business as usual. Nothing seemed to have changed. The fact that is was worker, and not unauthorized personnel, made a difference in this case. This story will fade away in a couple more days. It's already falling off the radar, no pun intended. It's not the first time a plane was stolen, and it won't be the last.
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AKar
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by AKar »

Orlaam wrote:The fact that is was worker, and not unauthorized personnel, made a difference in this case. [...] It's not the first time a plane was stolen, and it won't be the last.
To be honest, I'm actually surprised how few such acts there have been over the recent years, given the sheer amount and diversity of people who run this whole business, needing to have an almost non-restricted access to the flying assets on the aprons worldwide. Aside several high-profile pilot suicides, there have thankfully been relatively few lives lost in criminal/suicidal acts other than terrorism. Hopefully it will remain that way, and broken minds together with their close ones find ways to try to fix themselves before turning into such acts. A sad case, especially for his family and friends. :(

-Esa

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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Piper_EEWL »

AKar wrote:To be honest, I'm actually surprised how few such acts there have been over the recent years, given the sheer amount and diversity of people who run this whole business, needing to have an almost non-restricted access to the flying assets on the aprons worldwide. Aside several high-profile pilot suicides, there have thankfully been relatively few lives lost in criminal/suicidal acts other than terrorism. Hopefully it will remain that way, and broken minds together with their close ones find ways to try to fix themselves before turning into such acts. A sad case, especially for his family and friends. :(

-Esa
I agree. A very sad case with a sad ending.
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by whiic »

Press CTRL + E to start the engines:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6996621/s ... simulator/

I didn't know these real-life addon planes utilized autostart.

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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Paughco »

I'm sorry all kinds of different ways for the guy who flew that airplane, his folks, and anybody else that was negatively effected by the flight. But when it comes to somebody banning my flight sim, all I can say is these three words: "Cold Dead Fingers."

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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

whiic wrote:Press CTRL + E to start the engines:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6996621/s ... simulator/

I didn't know these real-life addon planes utilized autostart.
What a bogus article. They're mentioning flight simulators without any knowledge of him using one. I have heard he looked at youtube videos of start-up procedure the night before. He had no clue about operating the AP or other systems, so I think it's highly unlikely he even owned the Majestic. After working for almost 4 years at Horizon, he likely got to see some things and ask questions enough to know. The rest can be read online, in text, or watched in video. The Dash, in my opinion, is one of the harder aircraft to get going out of all the modern aircraft I'm familiar with. You don't just have one battery switch, you have those 3 or 4 battery switches. Then the control lock, power levers, condition levers, and so forth. Not to say he did it correctly, and I'm sure he damaged a few things before crashing, but it's not easy. It's not like you could grab any random well-educated person off the street and tell them to get it started. Even a number of pilots would struggle to figure it all out if they weren't type-rated. Some pilots have even remarked that they are shocked he even got airborne.

They even mention this "mechanic" nonsense, which we learned early on was not the case. I am curious to see if more about him comes out. Like his computer history and installed products. But, as I said, his knowledge of that aircraft and overall airplanes seemed rather limited. Anyone who uses sims the way most of of do would have been more knowledgeable about random systems and AP. He even said he didn't know how to use the AP. Well, most of them are pretty similar and a simulation user would have a better understanding of it than most.

I frequent another very busy website that is not aviation or flight sim related. A poster on there said he spoke to someone who worked with this guy for a long time. He said the guy, Richard Russell, was the nicest guy and you'd never have seen this coming. So I think the notion that all these people are pushing about mental health awareness is even more pointless than anyone could imagine. I've already been in some arguments online about mental health and this guy, but my career is direct patient care with mentally ill people. Even when you know someone is impulsive, you can't predict their future actions. And despite what people wanna believe, you cannot medicate behavior. Therapy and meds only do so much. If someone is bent on murder, suicide, or any number of terrible acts, there isn't a lot you can do to prevent it. If we locked up anyone who seemed off or said something crass, 40% of the world would be in prison or hospitals.
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

Here is a YouTube video of him on his channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ765Fn ... e=youtu.be
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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

So he mentions beer and taking about 2 hours to get it started. Kinda sounds like he backed it up for a taxi out, then sat in the flight deck for approximately two hours to get it started.

The start up comment is at the very beginning (0:08 seconds) and beer is mentioned at 10:37 (the transcript is wrong; he's clearly drinking and the word is beer)



It's funny, he is mostly condescending with the controllers. He is just some guy under the influence of alcohol and wasting everyone's time and money. :roll:

The takeaway from the ATC feeds I have heard is that he has very little knowledge of flying or basic avionics. He literally tells them he has no idea about AP or other basic things. I think he had seen the panels enough to know where things were (e.g., fuel, altitude, speed) but his knowledge of how to operate the plane was nil.
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Alan_A »

Orlaam wrote:He is just some guy under the influence of alcohol and wasting everyone's time and money. :roll:
Not sure it's just that. Based on some of the statements, I'd want to know more about his mental health.
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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

Orlaam wrote:So he mentions beer and taking about 2 hours to get it started. Kinda sounds like he backed it up for a taxi out, then sat in the flight deck for approximately two hours to get it started.

The start up comment is at the very beginning (0:08 seconds) and beer is mentioned at 10:37 (the transcript is wrong; he's clearly drinking and the word is beer)

It's funny, he is mostly condescending with the controllers. He is just some guy under the influence of alcohol and wasting everyone's time and money. :roll:

The takeaway from the ATC feeds I have heard is that he has very little knowledge of flying or basic avionics. He literally tells them he has no idea about AP or other basic things. I think he had seen the panels enough to know where things were (e.g., fuel, altitude, speed) but his knowledge of how to operate the plane was nil.
I never knew that he was under the influence of beer.
Some people that drink beer go mental (crazy) and many of those get very violent too.

I got in a violent fight with a violent beer drinker at one time.
At one point he also broke his girlfriends ribs when he was drunk after beating her.
After the fight I stayed far away from that nut.
He went to prison several years later from what I heard.

The guy that crashed the plane probably was distraught about his low wages too that probably was a major factor as well
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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

I truly believe 95% that he had alcohol onboard, despite some thinking that's hearsay. I have listened to that ATC audio many times and clearly hear the word beer. He sounds under the influence too. I mean, he is clearly drinking here. The puking and his goofy way of talking.

I am very curious about the wife and his overall background. I find it highly unusual that the wife seems to be absent here. The portrayal is that they are in love, but he never mentions her at all. Plus, the assertion is that she was a bit Type-A and he was Type-B personality. I wonder if she asked for a divorce or he found out she was cheating? He says "broken". That implies something went wrong, aside from him stealing a plane. His wife and him started a business a few months after they married. The business didn't last. They did stay together a long time considering, but he was also in college. Maybe he wasn't doing well and she was getting tired of being broke. Speculation I know, but I hope we hear more about what could have happened behind the scenes.

People underestimate the fact that women leave men or cheat on them, which often results in murders, murder/suicides, or other aggressive acts. It doesn't mean he had a true mental illness just because he said "**** life, I'm done" and went out with a bang. Happens all the time.
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by wblackret »

It's sad, to say the least. Of course tonight on ABC World News Tonight, here in the USA, they showed a basic flight simulator being used by a reporter, doing loops and rolls etc. and tied that in to a video, YouTube I believe, showing a Dash start up procedure. It's just like the constant issue of wanting to ban guns because someone gets shot and killed. During my 30 plus years in law enforcement, I never saw a gun kill anyone, but have seen many people use a gun to kill someone. Media likes to create a HYPE about anything they can and mislead people as to the real or unknown issues that result in such tragic events. This will undoubtedly create some type of ban or registering of flight simulator users issue, when you own a legally purchased flight sim platform, just like registering owners of legally purchased guns. Then some other clown in Utah steals his employers jet and flies it into his own home with family members inside, due to a domestic violence arrest. How much you want to bet flight simulation is mentioned in this case too.

Make no mistake about it, the MEDIA is no ones friend and they'll use what ever they can to create the HYPE or sensational story they feel they need to get out for people to get all excited about......and begin the drum pounding.

My opinion folks!
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Alan_A »

Couple of things...

1. There's a lot of speculation in this thread. I don't think anybody here is a mental health professional (apologies if I'm wrong about that), but even if so, it's probably not helpful to publish conclusions about what might have been the motivation. I think we can safely say that the individual's mental state was likely an issue, but beyond that, just as we don't speculate about air crashes, it's probably best not to speculate about causal factors here either.

2. The September 11 attacks didn't lead to registration of flightsim users (in spite of widespread concern - Microsoft even delayed the release of Flight Simulator 2002). So I somehow don't think this will.

3. @wblackret - I understand and respect your strong feelings - just a heads-up that discussions about gun-related issues are likely to get crosswise with the forum guidelines. There's a "Simple Forum Guidelines" sticky that might be worth a look.

4. @wblackret again - about the media being no one's friend - I'm not going to defend everything the media does, but would like to respectfully request that you not generalize. As I've noted elsewhere, I've been a member of the media, as have several generations of my family. I currently help organizations that need to work with the media. I'd be happy to have a conversation with you about the things you dislike - a private message exchange would probably be best, given the guidelines. But as a general rule I'd rather not be painted with that broad a brush.

Sorry to be playing forum policeman, which is something I'm largely trying to avoid, but a couple of things jumped out in this case. Thanks for listening and thanks for your patience!
"Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

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