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High or Low?
High. I like to play jet in my lawnmower. 19%  19%  [ 5 ]
Low. I like to cut grass and smash bugs. 81%  81%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 27
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:42 am 
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Location: Bonham, Texas
I just remembered what that published ice gauge did. Anyone who thinks FSX ice is wrong should install that gauge.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Well, I ought not need a gauge if it worked good enough. Having it there to punch a sledgehammer against my face if I fly in freezing rain is all but useless to me as I don't intent to take my airplane into some any more than I am intending to take one into a developed CB cloud. It is not my priority. Instead, for a proper simulation, I'd like to have proper accumulation rates in appropriate conditions with their corresponding effects in conditions that would not be grossly outside the expected operational conditions of the airplanes we commonly simulate. To have a hazard that often can be dealt with lurking in appropriate conditions. And hey - no overdoing! I like none of that make an area size of Belgium unflyable if a METAR reports thunderstorms in vicinity bullshit! :mrgreen:

But I guess that's enough about FSX/P3D icing without a dedicated thread from my part. :)

I need to check that place, Mena, AR. Unknown to me but sounds fun!

Happy 2019 everyone! :)

-Esa


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Location: KPUW
AKar wrote:
Thanks, at least summer representation of the scenery looks very decent in the sim. What I absolutely love to do when I've got some good time to allocate into a flight sim session is to take the flight in the sim, record it, and then review it in Google Earth, checking any Street Views or 360° images while finding out about interesting places. :)

-Esa


Definitely! I'll never forget the first time I (virtually) flew over Butte Montana and saw the Berkeley pit just north of town. I thought it was a software glitch at the time, then come to find out there really is a big deep pit there :o . It felt nice knowing all about it when I actually traveled to Butte.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Sorry Akar. :)

What that gauge does it at some point during icing it will lock your controls at an extreme setting causing you to crash with no way to recover or avoid it. Basically, it creates an unavoidable random instant death scenario. The icing doesn't have to be extreme for this to happen. You can guess what that makes flying like when the weather is cold. The actual ice indicator is three lights, green-yellow-red. I don't remember what else it might have done. This is not something I'd like to see in stock FSX and I doubt I'm alone.

If it increased your stall speed and added stall buffet as a warning, this would be good.

I think that mountain range is called Iron Mountain. It runs between the PGO VOR and KMEZ. Doing that flight in real life is on my bucket list.

Hook


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Hook wrote:
Sorry Akar. :)
Not sure if joking, but I never tried it, nor I found the gauge you perhaps were referring into. :) My comments were on earlier FSX/P3D experiences solely.

-Esa


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Google "ice gauge FSX" and you will find links. There are two versions in the Avsim library, one updated from the other. It is called iceV10. The documentation has a lot of information on icing in FSX and FS9 and is worth a read.

Hook


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:26 am 
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Update: The documentation is useful, the gauge might not be. The code has bugs that will reduce or eliminate the effects he is trying to produce. Try flying slow or lowering your flaps when the gauge is yellow for moderate ice. Red for severe doesn't appear to do anything.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:40 pm 
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I am narrowing in on how to predict icing.

Freezing rain will produce moderate to severe ice accumulation.

Snow does not cause ice but can be mixed with freezing rain which can. There is usually no indication that the snow includes freezing rain.

Clouds will cause light to moderate ice accumulation if you fly in or near them and the temperature is between 0 and about -10 C. I am currently guessing at the -10 as I did not get ice at -14 C or lower. The most common problem flying near clouds is flying just above or just below an overcast layer. Generally the icing is mild and you aren't in a cloud long enough for it to be a problem as it will dissipate slowly when you are out of the clouds.

I added a display of the variable used by the sim to determine when you are in clouds, and the variable will show in clouds when you are near them and not just when you are actually in the depicted cloud. This will also account for some cloud turbulence when you are near a depicted cloud but not inside it.

The actual weight gain from ice is negligible: in my 3800 pound aircraft 9% ice caused a weight gain of 9 pounds after accounting for fuel burned during the time ice was accumulating. You still lose airspeed and altitude and end up in a nose up attitude, but I'm not sure how much of this is changes to lift or drag and how much is caused by prop icing. I have seen no evidence yet that stall speed is increased, but this may be moot as the angle of attack may be exaggerated.

Icing can go above 100% so it's not strictly a percentage. You might even still be flying at the time. :)

Like the statement I made that started this whole discussion: this time of year you fly at whatever altitude you need to in order to avoid icing. In clear weather you can fly whatever altitude you wish. With clouds, especially when icing is possible, you may not be able to fly the altitude or even the course you want.

Hook


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am 
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I have completed my flight in the far north and have moved to the tropics. I won't see any more ice for a while.

At one point I thought I had a complete handle on when to expect cloud ice. I was not getting any ice indication at -9 C, but was getting it at -8 or a bit above. Only one problem. I flew for several hours in temperatures that ranged from -9 C to -5 C, obviously in clouds with the cloud indicator turned on, but I only experienced icing for a few seconds at a time, twice. There are obviously other parameters involved. Humidity (or the separation between temperature and dew point on the ground)? I don't know. Is there anything else that might account for not getting cloud ice when expecting it (real world, that is)? It may be that you only get ice in certain types of clouds. The only thing I can say for relative certainty is that I never experienced cloud ice when the temperature was -20 C or below.

Since I was watching closely for it, I did notice that even 1% made a difference in the aircraft. Some of this was due to carb icing.

The actual variable that determines the speed of ice accumulation is not available, but it can be turned on, even when not in clouds, by the weather program in use. The problem here may be Active Sky, not FSX. The next time I expect to be flying in ice I will have the aircraft set up with prop deice that comes on when you turn on carb heat with the H key (but not when you click on the lever in the cockpit). That way I can determine exactly how much of the performance degradation is due to structural ice and with carb heat turned on all the time the performance won't be affected because I'll already be accounting for it..

Hook


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