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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:31 am 
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I'll be phasing out of FSX eventually and installing P3D. When I make this switch I'll be concerned about my scenery accuracy. Right now in FSX I have GEX and Ultimate Terrain installed which give me accurate VFR topography which for me is a must for sim enjoyment. I'm looking for the most accurate visualization of my area as possible. This would be the middle eastern states of Delaware, New Jersey, Penna, Maryland. I want towns, rivers, landmarks etc all in the right places if possible.
When I switch over, will Orbx give me the accuracy I need and if so what should I get and in what order should I install it?

Thanks much for any and all information you might provide on this.
Dudley Henriques


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:42 am 
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Hi Dudley! It is my understanding that ORBX will work across the two sim platforms you’ve mentioned. In fact, this means you would not have to repurchase the sceneries, Base or Vector and such that you already have. FTX Central would recognize the platform change and you would be able to install the products you own. I am also considering the same thing and have searched their forum and this is the understanding I have.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:47 am 
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wblackret wrote:
Hi Dudley! It is my understanding that ORBX will work across the two sim platforms you’ve mentioned. In fact, this means you would not have to repurchase the sceneries, Base or Vector and such that you already have. FTX Central would recognize the platform change and you would be able to install the products you own. I am also considering the same thing and have searched their forum and this is the understanding I have.


I don't have any Orbx installed in FSX. When I switch over to P3D all will be new. Presently I have GEX and Ultimate Terrain ONLY installed in FSX. This will NOT be carried over into P3D. I'll be starting fresh with the default scenery in P3D then installing Orbx to bring my P3D up to the accuracy standard I require.
I'm requesting information based on this scenario.
Thanks
DH


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:54 am 
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DHenriquesA2A wrote:
I'll be phasing out of FSX eventually and installing P3D. When I make this switch I'll be concerned about my scenery accuracy. Right now in FSX I have GEX and Ultimate Terrain installed which give me accurate VFR topography which for me is a must for sim enjoyment. I'm looking for the most accurate visualization of my area as possible. This would be the middle eastern states of Delaware, New Jersey, Penna, Maryland. I want towns, rivers, landmarks etc all in the right places if possible.
When I switch over, will Orbx give me the accuracy I need and if so what should I get and in what order should I install it?

Thanks much for any and all information you might provide on this.
Dudley Henriques


Orbx will easily, however non-cheaply, provide great accuracy via a number of products. I'll endeavor to explain what they to in the most basic way:

- Orbx Global Base pack. It's expensive, but serves as a total and general scenery enhancement. I serves as the foundation. Very, very much recommended.

- Orbx Global Vector. This will provide great and updated roads, rivers, lakes, coastlines, railways, and similar "edges". Think of vectors. This will not alter the appearance of the sim other than the outlines, but it is of utmost importance for accuracy.

- Orbx openLC North America. This is amazingly good - it puts the correct textures where you expect them. This means that flying from a VFR chart you will see reasonably shaped towns and cities, or marchlands, or forests, or deserts, and so forth. It's a feast for the eyes.

All these Orbx products can be installed in whatever order you want - "Orbx Central" (the program Orbx uses to install things into the sim) will do it all for you. Simple - a few clicks, and just let it work for a few minutes.

- You will need some sort of Mesh. If you don't there are free ones available. A good mesh will take care of all the elevation differences.

"I want towns, rivers, landmarks etc"

Landmarks will be the only one might be lost - depending on what your definition is. These products are "autogenerated", that is they won't be neccessarily 100%. So you'll see plausible representations of the scenery. It will be very good, but you won't see depicted particular buildings that you expect. But you'll find correctly shaped towns, and you will find the correct roads, the small ponds and lakes, power lines, train lines, many of the 200+ feet antennas marked on maps (or stacks, if appropriate). Generic, but in a very good way. I have flown with FAA paper VFR charts over Orbx-land, and always find every single detail on the map. Usually there is more detail in the scenery than on the map - which makes it good for navigation. If I ever get lost it is my fault, not the scenery lacking.

Sorry for getting lengthy, but hope it's of assistance! Let me know if you have any particular areas you want to have a look at - I have the full suite installed and could easily go for a screenshot-hunt for you if you want.

Yours,

Erik

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All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:57 am 
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Medtner wrote:
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
I'll be phasing out of FSX eventually and installing P3D. When I make this switch I'll be concerned about my scenery accuracy. Right now in FSX I have GEX and Ultimate Terrain installed which give me accurate VFR topography which for me is a must for sim enjoyment. I'm looking for the most accurate visualization of my area as possible. This would be the middle eastern states of Delaware, New Jersey, Penna, Maryland. I want towns, rivers, landmarks etc all in the right places if possible.
When I switch over, will Orbx give me the accuracy I need and if so what should I get and in what order should I install it?

Thanks much for any and all information you might provide on this.
Dudley Henriques


Orbx will easily, however non-cheaply, provide great accuracy via a number of products. I'll endeavor to explain what they to in the most basic way:

- Orbx Global Base pack. It's expensive, but serves as a total and general scenery enhancement. I serves as the foundation. Very, very much recommended.

- Orbx Global Vector. This will provide great and updated roads, rivers, lakes, coastlines, railways, and similar "edges". Think of vectors. This will not alter the appearance of the sim other than the outlines, but it is of utmost importance for accuracy.

- Orbx openLC North America. This is amazingly good - it puts the correct textures where you expect them. This means that flying from a VFR chart you will see reasonably shaped towns and cities, or marchlands, or forests, or deserts, and so forth. It's a feast for the eyes.

All these Orbx products can be installed in whatever order you want - "Orbx Central" (the program Orbx uses to install things into the sim) will do it all for you. Simple - a few clicks, and just let it work for a few minutes.

- You will need some sort of Mesh. If you don't there are free ones available. A good mesh will take care of all the elevation differences.

"I want towns, rivers, landmarks etc"

Landmarks will be the only one might be lost - depending on what your definition is. These products are "autogenerated", that is they won't be neccessarily 100%. So you'll see plausible representations of the scenery. It will be very good, but you won't see depicted particular buildings that you expect. But you'll find correctly shaped towns, and you will find the correct roads, the small ponds and lakes, power lines, train lines, many of the 200+ feet antennas marked on maps (or stacks, if appropriate). Generic, but in a very good way. I have flown with FAA paper VFR charts over Orbx-land, and always find every single detail on the map. Usually there is more detail in the scenery than on the map - which makes it good for navigation. If I ever get lost it is my fault, not the scenery lacking.

Sorry for getting lengthy, but hope it's of assistance! Let me know if you have any particular areas you want to have a look at - I have the full suite installed and could easily go for a screenshot-hunt for you if you want.

Yours,

Erik


Many thanks for this. I've printed it out as a guide.
D


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Sorry Dudley, I missed that you didn’t already have ORBX, thus my answer. ORBX will be some expense, but I think you’ll like the change. Stupid me,I assumed everyone used ORBX!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 pm 
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As far as price is concerned, if you don't need the scenery right away you can probably catch a good sale. Orbx usually has several sales per year and at a large discount - the last one ran from Thanksgiving through the end of the year and was 45% off. You can always buy the software and then install it at a later date, so if you know you're going to need it you can buy what you want when a sale comes up but not download and install until you do make the switch.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 pm 
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AviationAtWar wrote:
As far as price is concerned, if you don't need the scenery right away you can probably catch a good sale. Orbx usually has several sales per year and at a large discount - the last one ran from Thanksgiving through the end of the year and was 45% off. You can always buy the software and then install it at a later date, so if you know you're going to need it you can buy what you want when a sale comes up but not download and install until you do make the switch.


I'll be betting that there will be some time until they have a new sale. They've been in sale-mode since Black Friday basically up untill January 2nd (as has the rest of the world - am I the only one who almost looks forward to the sales stopping, so I can keep going with my life?).

It'll be a good investment in any case, sale or no sale. I've gotten thousands of hours of thorough enjoyment out of the Orbx-line up.

PS, important note, Dudley:

The airports will be untouched. They are not part of any of the mentioned products. As such, they will be looking like FSX (!), and if the airport layout and accuracy (and just pure good looks) are importand, you should concider upgrades of your favourites via some payware versions.

You might find your favourite airports among the Orbx Freeware airports, which also can be easily (and extremely quickly - a matter of seconds) via the Orbx Central program. They are obviously free, but very well modelled, and are a superb compromise to payware.
It's not to be neglected how much fun it is coming into landing at a well modelled and realistic airport, as opposed to the horrid looking stock ones, so either good freeware or excellent payware is the way to go for me at least.

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(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:37 pm 
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I live in the Pacific Northwest and fly my sim mostly out of Arlington Airport (KAWO). I used to live in the SF Bay Area, and spent a lot of weekends during my misspent youth gassing and washing the NW Aviation fleet at Half Moon Bay Airport, plus stripping paint off the wings of an occasional 150. I have ridden motorcycles extensively throughout both these areas, plus Oregon, and down into the Southwest. You tend to notice scenery on a bike. At home I've got the Jetline 'puter, P3Dv4, and the full ORBX setup. Also Active Sky. Here are my observations:

Arlington Airport (one of the zillion ORBX free airport downloads I think) looks very much like the real KAWO when taxiing around and approaching for landing, etc. Darrington, Concrete, First Air, and Harvey Field are, near as I can tell, spot on. Flying through the Snoqualmie Valley, south out of First Air, the scenery looks pretty good from about 1,500 feet or so, but I cannot find my house, or even my actual street. I cannot find the high school, football field, etc., but in general things look pretty good once I quit orbiting around my neighborhood. The roads and scenery match up pretty well if I decide to fly east out of First Air and go over Stevens Pass to Wenatchee. I bought Half Moon Bay Airport (KAWO) the day it came out, and am blown away by the realism. They have Snoopy flying his dog house on the roof of the big hangar! Check it out on Google Earth! Same as when flying over ORBX KHAF! Is that my buddy Paul working out front of the hangar? Only way they could improve on that one is to have Paul's Grand Cherokee parked beside the hangar. Moving on. When flying VFR cross country, I usually have SkyVector and/or Little NavMap set up beside me on the MS Surface Pro. I might be around 9,500 feet or so, flying over anywhere in the Western US, and have to say that the terrain and features (mountains ridges, valleys, roads, towns, intersections, power lines, lakes, streams, etc.) match up very well with the VFR maps.

"As real as it gets," when you're flying in an A2A aircraft in P3Dv4 with the graphic and light/shadow settings turned up pretty high, ORBX doing it's thing, and Active Sky real weather is pretty darn real, I gotta say.

Thank you very much Dudley, for all that you have done to bring realism to our favorite brand of sim aircraft. Your money would be no good in the Duvall Tavern.

Seeya
ATB

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 pm 
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I fly in the same local area (I use KGAI as my home airport) and have a very satisfying experience with the combination of Orbx Global Basepack, Open Landclass North America, and Vector. While there aren't landmarks at the level of accuracy you'd find in a photoreal product, there are more than enough cues for VFR pilotage. For example, I'm able to find my way to KGAI from the south by following Rock Creek (and Rock Creek Park), or from the north by following I-270 south to the intersection with I-370/the Cross County Connector. There's a cluster of buildings representing Rockville Town Center that also serves as a landmark.

A long while ago I used the combination of GEX and UTX, and find that the Orbx products look a bit better.

A few cautions - Vector has a serious impact on load times and performance. The performance impact can be minimized if you turn off some of the details (secondary and tertiary roads, and minor streams). Some people turn off railroads but I leave them on so I can Follow them...

You''ll also want to turn off frozen lakes and rivers - there's a known issue with black textures if you leave them on.

Final thing to add to this package is the Orbx North American Airports freeware pack. There's a lot of good coverage on your home turf that represents a nice upgrade over defaults.

In all, I think you'll like what you find.

EDIT: Oh, about mesh - I may be in the minority, but I don't use third-party mesh. I tried Pilots' Global Next Generation, and found it was more trouble than it was worth trying to get it to play well with Vector. I find that for the mid-Atlantic, P3D default mesh is good enough, without any hassle other than running the Vector auto-elevation corrections after adding or deleting scenery (a painless process). Others will disagree but that's my story and I'm sticking to it...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Thank you very much everyone who took the time to answer my question. I appreciate your time very much and got a lot of good information.
As always,
Dudley Henriques


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Dudley,

Have you thought abot Megasceney earth. Larger file size depending on the area required but all is real.
Regards

gibo


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Perhaps if you post a video of a short flight in the area you are interested in using GEX and Untimate Terrain, someone could do a video of the same flight using all Orbx products so you could do a direct comparison.

I've flown VFR all over the US using skyvector.com and default scenery and have never had a problem. The only things missing from FSX/P3D that are on the charts are individual buildings like prisons and similar like racetracks, often used as VFR landmarks. Streams can be a mixed bag. Other things like roads, railroads, rivers, lakes, radio towers, "stacks", power lines, have all been there. Built up areas may or may not match charts perfectly, but small towns are the right size and shape. For smaller roads they probably aren't there, and forget about finding your house, but when I am navigating with roads or railroads or power lines they have always been where I expected. Smaller lakes and ponds are probably not depicted. Occasionally things don't match, such as a railroad switching yard east of Pittsburgh in FSX but not in Google Earth. Only once when following a power line did the line in FSX stop before the one on the charts. There is a power plant on a small lake not far from my house. In FSX the lake is there and is the correct shape, the power lines running from it are there, but the actual power plant is not. I have seen other power plants in FSX that are correct.

Hook


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:21 pm 
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gibo wrote:
Dudley,

Have you thought abot Megasceney earth. Larger file size depending on the area required but all is real.
Regards

gibo


I've not considered photo realistic scenery. Several people I respect have said it's fine for high altitude flying but can get blurry at lower cruising altitudes.
DH


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 pm 
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Dudley

Photo snenery could get blurry in fsx at any altitude.

This video is NSW Australia coast from memoery at 5,000ft to below.

https://youtu.be/_bO3FMRs0eI in Prepar3d v4.4 i have mot had any blurry scenery in this sim.

EDIT
I found this older video with an earlier version of p3d
https://youtu.be/rogkY05cum8

This is also an earlier version of MSE I believe.

Performance is good with PR scery as you don't need autogen. Good airports have surrounding 3d detail which in my opinion is all you need.

Pardo

Regards
Norm


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