P3D "update"?

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Hook
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Hook »

Skycat wrote:Personally I'm holding off on P3D until version 5 so I don't have to buy P3D all over again to upgrade from version 4.
The difference between FSX and P3Dv4 is considerable and well worth getting P3D now even if they come out with a new version in a year. Get the Academic version if you are price conscious and keep in mind that there is a liberal refund policy.

I just got P3Dv4, $200 plus another $100 to upgrade Active Sky (and get new cloud art) and Accu-Feel, and if version 5 came out in three months I wouldn't feel like I'd lost anything. I used version 2.5 for years, only upgrading to v4 when most of my existing aircraft would run in it. I wouldn't feel compelled to drop another $200 on another version any time soon.

The biggest problem for me was that I got a new and more powerful computer and setting the graphics higher caused out of memory errors. But I only had two aircraft that I flew a lot that I knew would work in version 4, which is 64 bit and doesn't get OOMs unless you don't have the RAM on your computer. A week after converting the one aircraft I flew the most to get rid of all the 32 bit code I got v4, and discovered that several other aircraft I flew had P3Dv4 versions... that I didn't have to pay extra for, which was a nice bonus.

I couldn't believe the difference between v2.5 and v4 in graphics and performance.

Upgrading your A2A aircraft will cost a bit, but with any luck a new P3Dv5 version won't be any extra, same as with v1-4 and the v4 versions add a lot. You could spread the expense over as much time as you wished but you shouldn't have to pay additional when v5 comes out. If you wait to do all this when you get P3Dv5, you'll need to buy the new versions anyway.

I'll repurchase the A2A Cub when it becomes available for v4 at whatever price they charge. I already have a P3D version of the Cherokee, bought as a bundle with the FSX version. I don't like the Cessna 172 enough to drop $80 for a new version, or even $50 for the Academic version. The Stratocruiser doesn't have a P3Dv4 version but appears to work in P3Dv2.5; at least it loads and doesn't complain, same with the FSX version of the Cub although I've flown the Cub quite a bit in the 2.5 version but not the Strat.

Several times I've looked at the store page and might have bought 3 or 4 aircraft, but every time I saw the price difference between Academic and Professional and it put me off any purchase. Since then I've learned that the major difference is the price, and I could buy either, but I'm less interested in getting any new aircraft at the moment.

LM doesn't offer any discounts for owning previous versions of P3D in any case.

Hook

MarcE
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by MarcE »

How about Leonardo SH, Majestic Software or Flight1.
I‘ve already mentioned Majestics. And yes, Leonardo do that. Flight1 is a publisher with hubdreds of addons, not a developer. For example do they sell the QW 787. No discount anymore. For the old Bae146 there is a discount. It depends a bit too much. FSL did it in the very beginning and QW offered a discount for I believe 2 months.

A2A has offered discounts in form of bundels. Had you taken a bundle wouldn‘t you have to pay twice. This was communicated and known from the beginning of A2A‘s P3D line. And now they offer their discount points system. I actually don‘t know what else you expect? There have been enough opportunities to get discounts. But this topic goes round and round and won‘t change anything. Wait for a sale if you don‘t want to pay the full price..

Hook
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Hook »

MarcE wrote:A2A has offered discounts in form of bundels. Had you taken a bundle wouldn‘t you have to pay twice.
If I had P3D when I bought the Cessna 172 I would have gotten the bundle, like I did with the Cherokee.

There is a small window when you might be using both sims enough to be willing to pay $20 extra for two versions of an aircraft. People who don't have P3D aren't likely to buy a bundle unless they know they'll be getting P3D in the near future and want to fly the plane in FSX in the mean time. People who already have P3D probably aren't likely to want an FSX version. However, I suspect they've sold a few bundles to people like me.

Hook

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Tim-HH
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Tim-HH »

MarcE wrote:Flight1 is a publisher with hubdreds of addons, not a developer.
That's not true. Flight1 is a publisher and a developer. The GTN, GNS, G600, King Air and Mustang are all Flight1 in-house products.

I own almost all of the P3D versions already. But that does not mean that I particularly like A2A's pricing model in this regard. And as long as A2A allows it, I think there is nothing wrong with an open discussion on this subject.

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Hook
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Hook »

Tim-HH wrote:But that does not mean that I particularly like A2A's pricing model in this regard.
I'm not sure how they could change it now even if they wanted to. What do they do with all the people who paid full price at the current rates?

Hook

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TBryson2
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by TBryson2 »

I understand both sides of the issue, and all arguments are valid. My complaint(?) is that because I purchased my Cherokee, Comanche and Cessna from a different vendor, (SimFlight.com) I don’t get any “Flight Hours” to use on my next purchase. :cry:

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patful
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by patful »

Tim-HH wrote:I think there is nothing wrong with an open discussion on this subject.
I've been reading these complaints for nearly two years. It's been beaten to death. It's not really discussion, more like coercion, like kids griping to their parents that all the other kids have new bikes, why can't they? Takes much of the fun out of this place. :(

Hook
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Hook »

I read so much about the evils of strong drink that I finally gave up reading.

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Medtner
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Medtner »

patful wrote:
Tim-HH wrote:I think there is nothing wrong with an open discussion on this subject.
I've been reading these complaints for nearly two years. It's been beaten to death. It's not really discussion, more like coercion, like kids griping to their parents that all the other kids have new bikes, why can't they? Takes much of the fun out of this place. :(
I think it is almost fascinating that people who are in such a minority and specialty hobby like ours can feel such entitlement.
For one, I feel the utmost gratitude for the likes of A2A, LM, Orbx, and all the others who have kept our hobby alive during a rough time.
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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Alan_A
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Alan_A »

Since the discussion includes mention of other publishers and developers, I have to say I appreciate Aerosoft's policy of charging only for new code. Simple and easy to explain and understand.

Perhaps that establishes that I'm guilty of coercion or entitlement. But then, I've never been good at cults.
"Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by jcblom »

Just to make it clear: I have no problem with A2A asking me to buy their models again for P3D, it's just that I have decided not to buy most of them. I bought all of them when they came out, did a number of paints for them and moved on to new things. So there is no real incentive to buy them again, for me anyway. Still, I will make an exception for the P-47, if and when it arrives. I love that bird...
FS painter. You'll find most of my FS9/FSX/P3D paints here.

Hook
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Hook »

I really like how A2A does things. I recommend A2A aircraft on other forums for people who are looking for good aircraft. They do excellent work.

I am not interested in warbirds, or four engine aircraft, or generic general aviation, no matter how good the aircraft are. I might buy something just to play with, like I did with the Cherokee back in the early days. For most of those kinds of aircraft, I am on the fence about buying them. It doesn't take much to push me away from a purchase, and there is an upper limit to what I am willing to spend for an aircraft that I don't expect to fly a lot.

I don't expect A2A to change. I am not asking them to. It is their company and they can set the prices and policies however they wish. I can make the decision to buy or not buy. That is all that is going on, no coercion, no entitlement, not even any criticism.

There are many people in this forum who believe that A2A can do no wrong. Criticizing something or sometimes even questioning it can invite attacks. In an environment like that people who have been around a while learn to keep their opinions to themselves.

A2A does most things right. But not necessarily all.

I do not enjoy flying the A2A Cessna 172 and I don't know why; the real one is a blast to fly. The Cherokee at $100 for the bundle was my first regretted purchase, but I enjoy flying it and I love the depth of the systems. I actually love the 377 Stratocruiser but I'm seldom in the mood to fly something that complex. The Cub is as good as it gets but it doesn't get a lot of flying hours either. I'd still pay whatever they asked for a P3Dv4 version, even if it was a straight port from the FSX version with nothing added, just to be able to fly it whenever I wanted. I'd even do the same with the 172 if the price was right. I wouldn't buy P3Dv4 until there was a version of Accu-Feel available for it. I have already mentioned why I don't have more A2A aircraft.

And I still recommend A2A whenever I get the chance.

The Living Legend video of the B-17 opened my eyes to what was possible in FSX. I may still buy it some day and gladly pay full price because I never bought the FSX version.

Hook

patful
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by patful »

Alan_A wrote:But then, I've never been good at cults.
Not me, either. I'm still pestering A2A to fix my P-40's nav lights. I get that not that many people bought it, but I'd still like it properly fixed. I've griped at Orbx and Flight1 over a couple of their products. I just won't complain about their business decisions. My job entails reading tons of complaints about retail/manufacturing clients, so I come here to relax, not see more of them. :mrgreen:
Last edited by patful on 18 Feb 2019, 17:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Alan_A
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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Alan_A »

Good discussion, as always (and as usual, a tribute to the quality of this community).

My perspective - as you can tell, I'm not 100 percent supportive of A2A (or anybody else, for that matter) but I'm still pretty supportive. As in, I've been a customer and a forum member for going on 10 years (I came for the Cub and stayed for the rest), and in that time, I think I've bought every A2A aircraft, a few of them multiple times, except for one or two of the Aircraft Factory offerings that I just didn't get around to. So that's the context for anything critical I might have to say.

It goes without saying that A2A gets to make its own business decisions and run things the way they want - I'd never argue with that.

@Hook - you make several really good points. Among other things, your post reminded me of something I was thinking about this morning, which is that the Flying Hours program isn't the same thing as a discount program, whatever anybody might say. It's a loyalty program, pretty much like a frequent flyer program, that rewards you more the more you spend. So it's great for A2A completeists like me, and I've done very well by it. But if I was more selective, it wouldn't be the same. Let's say I was a Spitfire fanatic and didn't care about any of the other products. So if in the past I'd bought the FSX Spitfire for $50, I'd have $5 worth of flying hours to spend, or $10 if I was getting double hours at the start of the program. Now I want to buy the P3D professional version, which is an $80 purchase, and I can get it for $5 or $10 off. I might, under those circumstances, take advantage of the discount, but still compare it unfavorably to Publisher X that offers a discounted upgrade path.

I'm just throwing that out there for the sake of accurate description. At the end of the day we all get to make our own decisions about these things, which is the way it should be - the marketplace in action, so to speak.
"Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

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Re: P3D "update"?

Post by Raebo »

I can only dream about having the opportunity to pay full blow if required for a P3D version of the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser.
I'm also hoping I can live that long.
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