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 Post subject: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:29 pm 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
Got a bit of an "issue"..
I bought the B-17 AccuSim yesterday and after twelve hours of reading the manuals, help pages, etc., trying to get "things" to work (like my controllers), I thought I start with a simple "area" first.. "Viewing""
Below are two pictures.. One is the FS9 B-17 Cockpit View. the other is the FSX B-17 Cockpit view..
Question: How do I make the FSX Cockpit look (and function) like the one in FS9??

Okay.. the Message Board keeps telling me the "Message Board Quota Has Been Reached".

Hopefully, you guys will know what the FS9 WOP B-17 2D Cockpit looks like, verses the FSX A2A AccuSim B-17 VC Cockpit..
When attempting to "fly" the FSX AccuSim B-17, I cannot see, much less "access" any instruments I may require.
Any information that will help my situation would be greatly appreciated..
Same with any and all information on how to get the FSX AccuSim B-17 to "acknowledge" my controllers (I had no problems with my FS9 WOP B-17).. I have the CH Yoke and Rudder Pedals and two Saitek Throttle Quadrants (with plans to fit two more). I can throttle-up the engines, but the VC Throttle levers do not move and the "Engine Pitch" does not change. If I try to adjust the Mixture or Props/RPM, nothing happens.. Black Smoke is boiling out of my engines!
When in VC, I cannot "read" the gauges because they are WAY too small. If I zoom in close enough to read a gauge, that's all I see.. THAT gauge.. Kinda makes a "Half Needle Turn" rather hard to do when one cannot see the needle, attitude gauge AND out the windscreen at the same time!
Sorry to say, but so far I am totally unimpressed with the FSX AccuSim B-17.. Please help to change my impression.

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Technical Sergeant

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 946
Location: Holland, near EHTW
Hi,

sorry to hear you are having issues.

Two things:
1) Could you post your systems specs (including fsx specifications: i.e. sp2/acceleration/addons)
2) You can upload your pictures to photobucket for example and post a link to it here for us to have a look.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:20 pm 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
MTFDarkEagle wrote:
Hi,

sorry to hear you are having issues.

Two things:
1) Could you post your systems specs (including fsx specifications: i.e. sp2/acceleration/addons)
2) You can upload your pictures to photobucket for example and post a link to it here for us to have a look.

Cheers,



Dark Eagle;
Thanks for the Quick Reply..
Running a "home built" computer (I can put them together, haven't a clue how to "program" anything!).
Basic stuff is an AMD64x2 5600+ Dual Core Processor.. 2.6GhZ (I think).. with a "Mutha" Fan & Heat-Sink with Copper Cooling Pipes (AMD Recommends for any chip over 5000+), a Fatality 8500GT Graphics Card w/512MB RAM on board. Four Gigs G.Skill RAM, 750 Watt Power Supply (modular), 250Gig SATA Hard-Drive. HDD Has it's own Heat-Sink with two 60mm Fans on it. Comp Case has three 80mm Tornado Fans, each on a controller.. one "Front" fan (Gozinta), one "Rear" fan (Gozoutta) and the third is directly over the Processor's Heat-Sink/Fan (to put more wind on the chip). North Bridge also has a fan (fixed speed). Got four Drives, 1 CD/DVD. a Floppy, a 100MB Zip and a 250MB Zip (they come in handy).. Entire case weighs a ton (has too, all those fans could move it across the table ;-}).. Running XP Pro (32 bit).. I had 64Bit installed, but most of my programs are still 32 bit..
On the FSX I have the Deluxe Edition with the Acceleration Expansion Pack added (with SP1 & SP2)
On the A2A Accusim, I only have the B-17 (is there a need for another plane?) and I DL'ed (and installed) the V1.1 Update... Just in case.. The Accusim B-17 is one of two "add-on" planes.. the other is a Fairchild PT-26. I had a BT-13A "Vibrator", but the panel was out of an F-18 or some such, so I deleted it. I'd like to "port-over" Milton Schupe's new FS9 AT-11, but I don't understand how to do that :-(
I've got the FSX settings/sliders set rather conservatively.. Like NO AI planes, minimal ground traffic, no "water effects", etc. About "medium" on everything else except the Aircraft settings, those are more "75%ish"
On the pictures, one was the FS9 2d Cockpit where everything is viewable (and easily clickable, as required), the other is the FSX VC Cockpit, as viewed from Pilot position" showing instrument panel & Windscreen as if the pilot were seated, showing that the pilot & "common" gauges are NOT readable (hardly identifiable) and switches that are difficult to click (you'd better be dead ON the yellow dot, or else!).. I can "zoom in" to "read" the gauges, not a feature I needed in FS9's WOP B-17 Cockpit nor a feature that adds "realism" to the experience.. Makes it an "Arcade Game", in my mind.. I'm just not a fan of VC Cockpits, I like 2D!
On the upside, I did manage to fly the AccuSim B-17.. I "positioned" myself between the Pilot/Co-Pilot seats so I could see all the gauges easily and clearly as well as being able to see out the windscreen (the windscreen divider bar is smack in the way for landing!).. Not "Realistic", but it worked.. Also, on my Props/RPM & Mixture Levers, Gear, Wing & Cowl Flaps, I read (after I made my post) another fellow's post (who was having the exact same issues) and found the Throttle & RPM "readings" respond REAL slow in relation to lever movement, Mixture is not infinite (I am use to adjusting "For Peak Performance"), but is "Four Positions" only.. The Switches require two "presses" per function.. i.e. To lower Wing Flaps or Landing Gear, press the switch once to "turn on" the Down motor, press again to Stop the Down Motor.. Duh!! Just like the 1943 B-17 Pilots Manual says!! (the Military has a term for this: "RTFM"!).
The MAG Switches are still a "PITA".. IF I can get the lever to "click" (one mag) off at all, the second click just turns it back on. I have yet to shut-off any MAG Switches! (I had no problem with this in the FS9 WOP B-17!)
Also, when I loaded the A2A B-17, I went into the pilot's side of the cockpit (which I thought was 2D), there were "Semicons" on the instrument panel.. After installing Accusim, the Semicons are GONE! I may uninstall AccuSim just to see which is better for "my style" of sim flying..
Bottom line.. I think I've figured out some of the "function" of the AccuSim B-17 (quit reading MS FSX Help Pages, Read genuine USAAF B-17 Manual) and I guess I'll just have to "deal with" a VC Cockpit, unless there is a hidden 2D Cockpit, somewhere (addon???)

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Senior Master Sergeant

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: WI USA
Hello. I used to fly with the 2d panel also. I could see all the gauges without any fuss, take off and land with the mini panel was easy. Then one day I tried flying in the VC. In an old biplane. Could not see anything. I thought this sucks, at first. Then I took a good look around the cockpit and out of the plane, and thought, this seems more realistic and immersive this way. At least as immersive as you can get looking at the whole world thru a small computer screen. Took some time to get used to. Now I only fly in the VC. I fly the B17 accusim and use the mouse pointer, in the VC, to work all the switches, knobs, levers, and such. After a little time, you get used to where everything is and becomes familar.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
robert41 wrote:
Hello. I used to fly with the 2d panel also. I could see all the gauges without any fuss, take off and land with the mini panel was easy. Then one day I tried flying in the VC. In an old biplane. Could not see anything. I thought this sucks, at first. Then I took a good look around the cockpit and out of the plane, and thought, this seems more realistic and immersive this way. At least as immersive as you can get looking at the whole world thru a small computer screen. Took some time to get used to. Now I only fly in the VC. I fly the B17 accusim and use the mouse pointer, in the VC, to work all the switches, knobs, levers, and such. After a little time, you get used to where everything is and becomes familar.


Robert;
I appreciate the information and the reply.. I uninstalled Accusim to see if I was right.. I was, there is a 2D cockpit in the B-17II. I can now see all the gauges clearly.. way more so than in Accusim VC cockpit.
I'm using a 17" monitor.. maybe that has something to do with it.. I dunno.. and I'm running two monitors so I can put other "instruments" (trim wheels, radios, etc) on the second screen and not clutter-up the cockpit.
The "few" downsides to NOT using AccuSim verses being able to actually SEE and USE one's instrument panel is a no-brainer for me.. Basically, I see AccuSim as a (ground) "Mechanic's Toy".. Serviceable and usable/readable instruments are a "Pilot's Must Have"..

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:43 pm 
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Senior Master Sergeant
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:05 am
Posts: 2101
Location: The Good ol U.S. of A.
Am I wrong here in understanding that You're trying to view the 2-D instrument panels?

If that's the case, the 2-D panels don't exist in the latest aircraft configurations from A2A.

Sorry, I think you're SOL.

:oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
Snuffy wrote:
Am I wrong here in understanding that You're trying to view the 2-D instrument panels?

If that's the case, the 2-D panels don't exist in the latest aircraft configurations from A2A.

Sorry, I think you're SOL.

:oops:


Snuff;
There is a 2D panel on the WOP (A2A) B-17II (FSX Version), but once you "add" Accusim, the 2D "option" goes away..
As I noted in a different post, the "loss" of the few goodies in AccuSim is not much compared to (MY!) ability to fly the B-17G from the Cockpit in 2D mode. I can see, and Read!, all the "relevant to flying" gauges in 2D. I cannot make-out the Compass or Air Speed numbers nor the needle & ball in the Turn & Bank gauges in AccuSim.. For Me, what little the AccuSim does for the pilot just isn't worth it.. Yeah, the APU and shakey instrument panel are neat, but which is more important? Having a shaky dashboard? Or actually being able to use, and fly with, the B-17's instruments? I'll go for the latter.. So, I'm out twenty-five bucks and stuck with it! I'll just put the DVD I burned with IL2-1946 (and all the DVD's of "upgrades" for it!), another waste of time, energy and money..
Sure wish someone could be allowed to make "B-17 Flying Fortress. The Mighty Eighth" into a viable MP Sim.. THAT would be Realism!
And I've either been FUBAR or SOL all my life.. (there is a whole 'nother story here, but that's for another place and time!)

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:41 pm 
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A2A Master Mechanic
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:04 pm
Posts: 3226
Location: San Francisco
Chas,

I'm afraid you will find that very few aircraft made exclusively for FSX these days will have
a 2D panel. The VC is the "norm" now.

Back in the FS9 days I flew with the 2D cockpit exclusively as the VC's then where rather
poor depictions compared to the current state of things.

I was very upset, initially, when ACES neutered the 2D capabilities in FSX but soon came to
realize that flying from the VC was much, much more immersive, and with the subsequent
addition of TrackIR to my setup there is absolutely no reason for me to want a 2D cockpit.

With TrackIR I find I can easily see all of the gauges/controls/etc and operate them without
resorting to 2D panel pop-ups in almost all cases.

While you may find the need to have a 2D cockpit, I'm afraid you are going to be stick with
very few options with new aircraft mosels.

As to Accu-Sim, it adds much,much more than "a shaky dashboard". and an wonderfully rendered VC.
The engine and systems management are much more complex than the previous version and so many
other enhancements that you'd be better off reading the Accu-Sim manual to appreciate them.

That said, to each his own :)

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:12 pm 
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Senior Master Sergeant

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: WI USA
Hello Chas. On my old 17" screen, I had no problems reading the gauges. I set the in game resolution the same as the native monitor resolution. Takes some time to get used to the VC.
Back in the FS9 days, took me a long time to finally accept the VC. I hated it. I use to add my own 2d panels to every aircraft. Then one day, I started a flight in the VC in an old Curtiss Robin biplane. Could not see in front of me, where I was going. Crashed a few times. Only had a few gauges in this plane, so seeing them was not too much of a problem. After a while, I could fly straight and level, land and take off, make turns. Learned to look around to see where Iam, and discovered a much more immersive way to enjoy flight simming.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
Gypsy Baron wrote:
Chas,
The engine and systems management are much more complex than the previous version and so many
other enhancements that you'd be better off reading the Accu-Sim manual to appreciate them.

That said, to each his own :)


Paul;
I spent twelve hours reading the AccuSim Manual the day after I bought the FSX B-17 & AccuSim.. (I was doing income tax the first day.. Figured I'd better get that refund to pay A2A :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:17 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
robert41 wrote:
Hello Chas. On my old 17" screen, I had no problems reading the gauges. I set the in game resolution the same as the native monitor resolution. Takes some time to get used to the VC.
Back in the FS9 days, took me a long time to finally accept the VC. I hated it. I use to add my own 2d panels to every aircraft. Then one day, I started a flight in the VC in an old Curtiss Robin biplane. Could not see in front of me, where I was going. Crashed a few times. Only had a few gauges in this plane, so seeing them was not too much of a problem. After a while, I could fly straight and level, land and take off, make turns. Learned to look around to see where Iam, and discovered a much more immersive way to enjoy flight simming.


Robert;
Yeah, I learned about setting Sim and Monitor(s) to the same resolution back when I first got FS9.
I'll admit, in VC I can "see" enough "down he runway" from the pilot's seat to take-off, I have to taxi from the rear External view.. In 2D, once I'm in the Pilot's seat, I can taxi, take-off, fly, navigate, land and park.. (even take a potty break).. To me, That's "Realism".. As Paul (Gypsy Barron) alluded to, having a TrackIR would "allow" one to "look around" and see over the instrument panel.. a luxury I cannot afford.. Plus, I'm having Neck Surgery on April 7th (fusing C-6 & C-7), so I won't be "looking around" for several months.
In 2D, I have my "Hat Switch" set to "snap" to Quarter Left Rear, Left, Left Front, Right Front, Right and Quarter Right Rear. In the VC, the Hat Switch is a (very) slow "pan" to look anywhere, but I have a full 360 degree view (disorienting, at times!). Having the "Pan" is nice to view the gauges, but I have to "Zoom In" to actually read them.. If I zoomed "forward" enough to see to fly, I see the few gauges at "12 o'clock" directly in front of me... the ILS and PDI, and if I tilt down (losing some windscreen viability) I can see the Flux Gate Compass.. If I zoom back far enough to see the IAS, Altimeter, Props/RPM and MP gauges, then I can't read any of the gauges.. Catch-22!! I feel like Capt. Yossarian..

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:55 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
I created a PhotoBucket account and added both screenshots so you can see what I see, with respect to 2D in FS9 (and FSX) and VC in FSX..
Link for the FS9 2D Photo is: http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i42 ... FS91-1.jpg
Link for the FSX VC Photo is: http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i42 ... 0/FSX1.jpg
(I tried to get the photo size the resolution the same for both pics, it just won't work.. It's not an attempt to skew the images in my favor!)
As you can see, the 2D panel is clear, crisp an bright. Very readable
The VC Panel is dark, blurry and totally not readable!
Charles


Last edited by DHC120 on Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:39 am 
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Senior Master Sergeant
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Location: The Good ol U.S. of A.
DHC120,

Let me tell you what I do to view all the gauges ... in the 3D cockpit.

I change my viewpoint to that of the Engineer/Top Gunner standing approximately behind/between the seats.

Minor adjustment of my head angle and everything is seen just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:39 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Texas! Is there anyplace else?
Snuffy wrote:
DHC120,

Let me tell you what I do to view all the gauges ... in the 3D cockpit.

I change my viewpoint to that of the Engineer/Top Gunner standing approximately behind/between the seats.

Minor adjustment of my head angle and everything is seen just fine.



Snuffy;
The one "Complete & Successful" flight I did make in the Accusim B-17 was in the Engineer/Top Turret Gunner's position, "standing between the seats".. It was an improvement over sitting in the pilot seat. Lining up on the runway was easier.. I just kept the runway blocked-out by the windscreen divider..but hardly "realistic".. I paid for "Realism".
I uninstalled Accusim, then, in 2D, I did a complete Start-Up (of the B-17II) from "Cold & Dark, Taxied from the NE parking area to north end of KNFW's runway, lined-up, took-off and flew out about fifty miles, did a lazy 180 back to the north, cruised over downtown Ft. Worth and on about fifty miles past KNFW, did another "lazy 180", kept Meacham Field to my front left until Carswell came into view, made slight adjustments to "line-up the runway", brought her down and brought her in, taxied back to my parking area, did a complete shut-down and never left the Pilot's Seat!! That was more "realistic" than standing between the seats.
I do appreciate the thought & reply, tho.
Thanks.
Charles.

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 Post subject: Re: Viewing Problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Senior Master Sergeant

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: WI USA
Hello Charles. After looking at your 3d screen shot, I see what the problem is. It is the zoom. I also cannot see the gauges when zoomed back like this. I need to fly with no zoom. I cannot see all of the instrument panel of course. Need to pan around. Yes I can become disorientated sometimes. Just center the view, control and space bar, and start again. After awhile, I can pretty much center the view with just the hat button. Takes practice.


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