The A2A Simulations Community

Hi everyone

Is there anyone here who can fly the Cub competently enough and does it with a twisty joystick?

Does everyone use pedals? Know of any budget ones that do the job?

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

Well I was trying to coordinate turns and having some difficulty. I tried going back to a Cessna for some practice and maybe that helped a bit.
But you know how when you play a golf shot where you strike it perfectly and convince yourself that you're an expert? Well after flying the cub randomly for a bit I managed a perfect 3 point landing on the runway

I do think that the Cub's fantastic incidentally. I can't wait to get my new VFR scenery and try the 2 together. I'm hoping that the scenery will help with picking out items to aim for when turning.

Anyway, does everyone use pedals?

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

I certainly do...I hate twist joysticks with a passion.

Saitek pedals have (used to have) a patchy reputation but are reasonably priced. CH pedals are what I use on the desktop setup but they are a bit pricey.

There is always teh "make your own" option which is nowhere near as hard as you might think, particularly if you don't want toe brakes.

Darryl
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...Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for Merlin parts...

Thanks Darryl. The other issue is that I play on a laptop for portability and pedals aren't really so I guess I've not much choice. I did look at the Logitech controllers where there's a rocker for rudder control on the throttle controller.

But it may just be a case of being a bad workman. Maybe I need to practice my skills rather than just buying new tools
(not that pedals aren't a lot better, just that I'd have to learn a bit with them as well)

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

Well, I see your point. But the main "plus" for pedals is that they are the *real* way to control rudder. I can't imagine, quite frankly, being able to fly the Cub nicely without some rudder control and I can't see it being anywhere near like "real" without pedals as opposed to twist grip.

Jabbing at rudder pedals with your feet is a lot different to twisting a grip..especially while you are trying fine aileron/elevator adjustments at the same time.

Bottom line I guess..can you have fun flying with a twist grip joystick?? Yes, particularly if you are not a real pilot and to an extent "don't know what you are missing"... but can you fly realistically? IMHO, no..not even close.


But then again..you could ask me "do I NEED a full sized simulator to fly the Spitfire?"

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...Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for Merlin parts...

I have the Saitek pedals wouldn't fly with out any type of foot pedal as Killratio says flying with a twist grip is just not the same .
And having toe braking shore helps with the differential braking

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Ron
B-17 AIRFRAME 710 HRS PLUS AND CLIMBING




GIGABYTE X58A-UD5 MB, INTEL I7 950, 12GB DOMINATOR-GT DDR3 RAM, WIN7 64, GIGABYTE SUPER OVER CLOCK GTX 560 TI 1GB GGDDR5 1000Mz, CORSAIR 850W PS, NOCTUA NH-D14,
TRACKIR 5 & TrackClipPro

Hmmm, I'm sure you're right. What's happened is that I needed to buy a new laptop.

Once I bought it I thought "Hmmm, I could try running FSX on it!"

Since then I've bought the Spit and the Cub (both with Accusim), FSX Real Scenery for England and Wales and REX.

So I think I'd be pushing my luck with the wife buying a yoke and pedals just now.

I guess I was actually hoping to get responses saying "Nah, using the twisty joystick is fine"

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

Well I found these instructions on making wooden ones:

http://www.flightsim.com/main/howto/rudtoe.htm

Might work I guess.
(I gather than these instructions also require a usb to analog port adapter such as this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Max-Value-Game-Adapter-MV42420/dp/B001GXR792/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337346014&sr=8-1 to connect it)

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

tbaac, where are you ?
If in the UK I've got a set of CH Pro pedals you can have for £40 + postage, if your in London I'll even deliver them.
There in like new condition still in the box.

Same as these.
http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

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Asus P5Q3
C2D Q9650 @3.6
8Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz
GTX580 3Gb
Akasa 1000w PSU
Antec 1200 gaming case
Asus VE276Q 27" Monitor 1920x1080
Win 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1

Hi Dangerous Beans

I'm in Farnborough. That seems a very good price, how long have you had them? Did you buy a better set?

I feel the words "gift horse" and "mouth" here and "yes" would probably be a better one.

Do you take Paypal?

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

Farnborough Hants or Kent ?, I lived in Cove (Farnborough Hants) for a couple of years when I was a kid.

I,v had them a while but they haven't been used for a couple of years.
I was using them along with the CH Yoke but the Yoke wore out so I replaces the lot with the Saitek stuff.

The CH pedals are great and very solidly built but there Yoke is rubbish IMO as the plastic shaft that runs through plastic bushes warps and wears making it very notchy, no such problem with the Saitek one with its metal shaft.

I don't Paypal I'm afraid so I'm not sure what to suggest on that front.

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Asus P5Q3
C2D Q9650 @3.6
8Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz
GTX580 3Gb
Akasa 1000w PSU
Antec 1200 gaming case
Asus VE276Q 27" Monitor 1920x1080
Win 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1

Yes, I live in Cove

It sounds daft asking about Paypal, but if you'd sold stuff on ebay I thought it was possible.

Presumably the pedals just have a usb plug, they don't need to plug into a yoke? (In some ways the Cub doesn't have a yoke so a joystick will do....)

Also I have Windows 7 and the pedals that you linked to had support for Win 7 so they should work with that.

I'm in Cove but that's still quite a drive out from London as you'll know. Can you find out how much the postage would be please? What's the best way for payment do you think?

Thanks again.

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

I can give you a "it's fine" response if you want. It would be "fine" in sense some native English speakers (and used car salesmen) use word "fine", i.e not good at all but still better than horrible.

I use a twist grip joystick, a real el cheapo of joysticks Saitek Cyborg X (aka MadCatz Cyborg F.L.Y.5) and it's one bang of buck. I did have to replace it with a new one of the same model (but some minor modifications that have been done along the years, new one being of tighter tolerances). The old one was loose to begin with and only got worse in use probably because of me playing IL-2 with it and not actually being very soft-handed with it. Some people could actually qualify the way I used by old stick as "physical violence". Actually, I might call it such as well (I'm going to be more gentle with the replacement)...

Anyway... it did take months to get used to the twist grip at first (back when I first got the old, now retired stick) since I had use non-twist grip joysticks before: I often inadvertently twisted it while doing a bank or while pulling the stick to raise the nose on final / flare. It was very restless and I even tried to fly it with the twist axis disabled (using keyboard rudder) but returned to twist grip. Over time I got used to it and I no longer inadvertently twist it when I intend to use only ailerons and/or elevator. The problem of precision still remains as with twist grip, I cannot really control the precise amount of rudder. Also when I have twisted it, I cannot really know how exactly much I'm applying it... that combined with FSX's buggy sideslip indicator ball and as result I cannot be certain I'm perfectly coordinated through the entire turn.

A non-twist grip joystick would be better in aileron and elevator precision too as there would be no free play due to twist potentiometer bearing tolerance. The adjustable handle of Cyborg X / F.L.Y.5 (while it allows customization to perfectly fit any size of hand) also creates another, cumulative free play for elevator axis.

I'll still stick to my twist grip stick because it's so incredibly compact. And because a twist grip joystick is cheaper than a proper non-twist grip joystick... not to mention rudder pedals alone costing four times as much as the joystick with built in rudder. But mainly for space considerations. Considering the time I use for flight sims (combat and non-combat variety), a couple hundred euros wouldn't be a huge investment for the increase of accuracy of rudder input. The space consideration is a bigger issue to me.

Just noticed this topic was on Piper Cub board. I don't fly the Cub. But it's not like B-17 or P-40 are that much easier on the rudder. The latter requires accurate amounts of rudder on take-off to not swerve around like a headless chicken, while the former requires precise rudder to keep turns coordinated (and full right rudder on take-off to counter the force that tries to pull the bomber out of the runway to the left). Spitfire requires rudder on take-off too, but it's not as restless as P-40, and unlike B-17, it remains almost perfectly coordinated in turns with just proper application of elevator. I'm sure I could handle the Cub "fine" with twist grip as well.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I bought Dangerous Beans' pedals so now the correct response is "Yes, pedals are vital"

But I do wonder whether setting autothrottle to yes is a much cheaper option. Yes, you'll lose a little bit of realism, and if you are, or ever will be, a real pilot then that may be important. But there's loads of other realisms in there to keep us occupied.

Anyway, got me pedals now, still getting used to them. Taxiing is a whole new experience for me.

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A2A Spitfire & Cub, Accu Sim, FSX Deluxe, REXv2, VFR Real Collection
Dell 15R (N5110) - Intel Core i5-2410 - 8Gb ram - Nvidia GT 525M - 15.6 inch 1366x768 display - Windows 7 (64) Ultimate

I always advise people who ask me to, if at all possible, invest in a good set of controllers (stick, throttle, and pedals) to go with A2A products. You don't NEED them per se to enjoy the product, but the quality of the A2A airplanes and the depth of immersion that A2A builds into their products is so good that a good set of controllers is really worth the expense.
If you really enjoy flying in flight simulator, a good set of controllers coupled with A2A products will take you into a whole new world of enjoyment and education.
Dudley Henriques