Traffic Pattern and Approach Questions

[Tomesk]

1. For some aircraft, the POH just gives a downwind speed and approach speed. Is the aircraft configuration (flaps, prop, throttle, gear (if applicable and obviously down but at what point), etc.) a matter of pilot preference or is there some other reference that I may be missing? For example,The B17 Manual gives some detailed info for the traffic pattern and approach with regards to throttle, prop and flap settings.

2. I often find myself above the recommended approach speed. Is there a proper way to reduce airspeed while maintaining the glideslope when established on approach?

Thanks,

[Jacques]

The simplest way to maintain speed on glide slope is to descend early enough to level off, or at least slow your descent, before you begin your final approach. This, in turn, will allow you time to bleed off speed, increase RPM per the checklist, and/or bring down the gear and some flap. All of which will help you keep speeds under control during the approach.
JP

[dacamp66]

check out the following, has a lot of cool info/tutorials for us propellerheads: http://www.calclassic.com/tutorials.htm

[Tomesk]

Thanks for the input

[N1684T]

Remember to use power to control descent rate and pitch for airspeed.

Hope this helps
Mark S.

[MarcE]

Remember to use power to control descent rate and pitch for airspeed.

Hope this helps
Mark S.

With A2A-aircrafts yes, general FSX almost impossible to do properly... a lot too much drag on flaps and landing gear.


Tomesk,
with small GA planes you mostly fly a traffic pattern with downwind, base and final... if the gear is driven automatically the (early) downwind is recommended to lower it. Depending on the aircraft, you might also set some flaps. With the C172 I usually set flaps to 15 on downwind and lower them completely after final turn. Just don't go into any unnatural flight attitude (like a turn) with speed brakes or full flaps.

If you don't fly a pattern by any reasons (we don't have one on our club's aerodrom to prevent noise) there's actually no real rule when to lower gear and flaps... But as you decide the point in time you go through the landing checklist, it's actually answered ^^

[n421nj]

Up to you. You can lower your gear on downwind or base or on a 5 mile final. All that matters is that they are down before you land. As for flaps you want to introduce them gradually as your airspeed slows. I tend to wait until I can glide to the runway before I drop full flaps in a single engine plane in case the engine quits. Some instructors will tell you to have the plane fully configured to land before you turn final so you aren't rushed last minute.

[MarcE]

Some instructors will tell you to have the plane fully configured to land before you turn final so you aren't rushed last minute.

depending on the aircraft this can be quite dangerous, some planes don't care about it.. ^^ I personally was tought to use as little flaps as possible in final turn and lower them completely after leveling the wings. A turn is an instable and nonnatural flight attitute that reduces the lift area and flaps are nonnatural change of the wing's profile and an increase of drag. Both together can be very dangerous, all above the COG might be a little inappropriate.

It's extremely interesting to see the differences of schooling student pilots with different guidelines of different aviation offices on different continents ^^ every point makes sense, but there's more than one way to skin a cat

[DHenriques_]

Remember to use power to control descent rate and pitch for airspeed.

Hope this helps
Mark S.

This is correct although as a CFI I always shifted this a bit in the way I taught it to students. Actually, when and if a pilot ever gets into extremely high performance jets what I'm about to say takes on special meaning.

Although correct to pitch for airspeed and use power to control sink rate, I feel it is imperative that pilots realize from the very beginning that these two are inexorably linked to each other. You make a change in pitch and it will ALSO affect altitude as airspeed changes. You make a change in power and there will also be a change in airspeed .
A properly flown approach will ALWAYS reflect a pilot's complete understanding of how pitch and power are CONNECTED as opposed to the alternative that all too often is how pilots end up through questionable flight instruction thinking of these two things as separate and to be treated as separate unrelated one to the other.
Dudley Henriques

[Corkscrew196]

1. For some aircraft, the POH just gives a downwind speed and approach speed. Is the aircraft configuration (flaps, prop, throttle, gear (if applicable and obviously down but at what point), etc.) a matter of pilot preference or is there some other reference that I may be missing? For example,The B17 Manual gives some detailed info for the traffic pattern and approach with regards to throttle, prop and flap settings.

2. I often find myself above the recommended approach speed. Is there a proper way to reduce airspeed while maintaining the glideslope when established on approach?

Thanks,

Hi Tomesk,

There is always a reference, dependent on the aircraft you fly and the specifications given by the POH, or your flying club/squadron (each has its own specifications-they know the individual aircraft). Those references are often quite specified and all this to insure flight safety.
You learn them by memory; wake me up and I can give you any specifics for any phase of flight.
However, me and other pilots agree there is a mismatch going on within FSX concerning the sensitivity settings of the controls. So, no matter how accurate Accusim can be (and thankfully it's an incredible improvement beyond stock FSX) , those settings will influence the aircraft behavior in a bad way, for sure. Improvement by adjusting those settings is possible , but you will never be able to exactly simulate the real thing. Again, this is not Accusims fault, it's something within FSX in combination with the controllers you are using.

Frits

[sdflyer]

2. I often find myself above the recommended approach speed. Is there a proper way to reduce airspeed while maintaining the glideslope when established on approach?

Thanks,

Typically final approach speed is 1.3Vs0 for majority aircraft.

For the light aircraft atypical pattern altitude is 1000 ft AGL. Normally (talking about light aircraft), gears go down at midfield downwind. Descent (from pattern) starts from abeam so called "runway numbers". There also goes first 10-15 degrees of flaps. Turn to base legs usually initiated at 45 degrees to the runway end. Base leg associated with reduction of power and flaps 20-25 degrees. Finally, on the final approach leg speed goes down to 1.3Vso, full flaps are deployed when runway made - meaning if engine fails pilot will be able to glide with full flaps down..

Sometimes those guideline may vary depending on aircraft. For example older Beechcraft Bonanza flaps deployment takes very long time comparing say with 172. So some people put full flaps from "abeam the numbers" and by the time Bonanza makes turn to final flaps usually make their way through down position.

[Sundowner]

I would recommend looking for Alan Bramson book "Make Better Landings".
Pretty good book that goes over patterns and landings with different aircraft and conditions.
I've got mine from eBay last winter for very affordable price

[GrandpaKim]

Remember to use power to control descent rate and pitch for airspeed.

Hope this helps
Mark S.

This is correct although as a CFI I always shifted this a bit in the way I taught it to students. Actually, when and if a pilot ever gets into extremely high performance jets what I'm about to say takes on special meaning.

Although correct to pitch for airspeed and use power to control sink rate, I feel it is imperative that pilots realize from the very beginning that these two are inexorably linked to each other. You make a change in pitch and it will ALSO affect altitude as airspeed changes. You make a change in power and there will also be a change in airspeed .
A properly flown approach will ALWAYS reflect a pilot's complete understanding of how pitch and power are CONNECTED as opposed to the alternative that all too often is how pilots end up through questionable flight instruction thinking of these two things as separate and to be treated as separate unrelated one to the other.
Dudley Henriques

'Bout time somebody said this. I had to figure it out by myself. I was mislead by FS2 in which the response was immediate. Took a while to see how these two inputs were tightly linked. Thank you D. Henriques!

[Whitehawk]

This is correct although as a CFI I always shifted this a bit in the way I taught it to students. Actually, when and if a pilot ever gets into extremely high performance jets what I'm about to say takes on special meaning.

Although correct to pitch for airspeed and use power to control sink rate, I feel it is imperative that pilots realize from the very beginning that these two are inexorably linked to each other. You make a change in pitch and it will ALSO affect altitude as airspeed changes. You make a change in power and there will also be a change in airspeed .
A properly flown approach will ALWAYS reflect a pilot's complete understanding of how pitch and power are CONNECTED as opposed to the alternative that all too often is how pilots end up through questionable flight instruction thinking of these two things as separate and to be treated as separate unrelated one to the other.
Dudley Henriques

Indeed, can't change one without affecting the other. Make your changes early and small, to avoid having to make big changes late. A good landing comes from a good approach, and a good approach is stable. Not necessarily straight in, but not requiring large corrections. Good fun teaching it!

[JetSet321]

For the C172 I was always taught;

Abeam the numbers on downwind;
Flaps 10, engine 1500 rpm, slow to 80kts and then descend at 80.
45 degrees from the runway;
Flaps 20 slow to 70kts, turn base.
Before joining final;
Flaps 30, 65kts
Over the the threshold pull power to idle and hold the hose up to bleed off the speed and flare for a smooth touchdown.

This only applies to the c172.

I don't have any experience in other airplanes but I see no reason not to set your flaps before turning final, as long as you keep coordinated it lowers your stall speed.