Well,
I have had serious delays which have actually worked in my favour....
The methods I will be using have actually morphed much closer to the real Spitfire building methods. Accordingly I've been madly making wooden router patterns, swage dies and had a friend adjust a small GA to a full size drawing of Frame 8 to copy and use as a paper pattern for everything.
Also, one purchase.
One new "Donation" from Richard at Airtech (who I am helping with his latest project..but much more of that later, I suspect!)
Late Spitfire I Panel :
A couple of changes will be necessary to revert it to early but MUCH easier than chain drilling one or getting drawings set up in DX files for Chris to laser cut a stainless one!
And, last but not least, a purchase from "Replica Aircraft Parts"
BFP
I felt I needed to pay for something..as they have made further donations of a Parking Brake Clip Bolt, an Undercarriage Down Circuit Switch (for the side of the throttle) and an Aluminium Gun Button Ring (correct for the Spit I) .
More as things develop.
Spitfire K9817 Build
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
A nice morning's work....
The Kygas Primer had the later label on it and the knurling was very worn (almost smooth). So half an hour with the lathe and then a couple of coats of brass clear protectant...
: Old
Refurbished
Very pleased with the way it has come up.
And in P9374:
And the first Former being lined up to pattern (If I have told my assistant once, I've told him a MILLION times..NO Japanese Workboots in the workshop...I will have stern words .. because - I - am all about the safety!!)
The more keen eyed may spot that the Rivet Count is slightly out for a Spitfire I, as is the top of the Frame where it runs up the sides of the main Panel. Both will be corrected in the wooden Former but the GA I have was better quality for the Mk IX than the "One" and thus easier/clearer to blow up to 1:1 Scale.
And finally a selection of swages/flange dies made for the Spitfire.
The Kygas Primer had the later label on it and the knurling was very worn (almost smooth). So half an hour with the lathe and then a couple of coats of brass clear protectant...
: Old
Refurbished
Very pleased with the way it has come up.
And in P9374:
And the first Former being lined up to pattern (If I have told my assistant once, I've told him a MILLION times..NO Japanese Workboots in the workshop...I will have stern words .. because - I - am all about the safety!!)
The more keen eyed may spot that the Rivet Count is slightly out for a Spitfire I, as is the top of the Frame where it runs up the sides of the main Panel. Both will be corrected in the wooden Former but the GA I have was better quality for the Mk IX than the "One" and thus easier/clearer to blow up to 1:1 Scale.
And finally a selection of swages/flange dies made for the Spitfire.
- Norforce
- Senior Master Sergeant
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
As all ways mate great work, can't wait to get back over for another visit hopefully around June/July
Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Darryl, I'm fascinated and amazed with the detail you have created for your pit!
Take care
Ed
Take care
Ed
- bmbrzmn101
- Staff Sergeant
- Posts: 252
- Joined: 19 Jun 2011, 14:40
Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Still thinking I need to make a long trip for a short hop in your sim. Totally unbiased review of course!! Looking great!
Chris
Chris
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Norforce wrote:As all ways mate great work, can't wait to get back over for another visit hopefully around June/July
Cheers Ron, any time. (Unless I am on "the trip"..which isn't likely at this stage)
Cheers Ed, as am I with your woodwork! The parts you have created from wood just look like the real thing now they are painted. The detail is great fun..but a curse, as you will find when you get up and flying properly...lots of maintenance. At least the Spit I will have less "moving parts" than the IX (or the Mustang!)Raceguy wrote:Darryl, I'm fascinated and amazed with the detail you have created for your pit!
Thanks muchly Chris, you are welcome any time. I think I should be at least flyable again by June/July. If not I will probably temp install everything in the wood fuselage.bmbrzmn101 wrote:Still thinking I need to make a long trip for a short hop in your sim. Totally unbiased review of course!! Looking great!
No progress this weekend, dog shows and 38C heat to deal with.
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
It has been a difficult month here. Despite constant problems, I eventually got into my garage for 6 hours on Saturday and 5 on Sunday. Still not good for a "go away and leave me alone, I am in the garage all weekend and will kill anyone who interrupts me!!" weekend where I SHOULD have had at least 8-9 hours both days. But apparently death threats are not taken seriously at my place. I may have to remedy that!
I have also been sidetracked on another exciting project but that is mostly a "late night" thing which costs me sleep but nothing else and is helping to keep me sane!
Anyway......
FINALLY some major progress BUT surprisingly little to "show" for it.
The main upper longerons have been bugging me for quite some time. (since before Christmas, in fact). But the long lead time and many, many rethinks have finally borne fruit, I think.
I finally gave up on bending 2 metres of 1.5 mm aluminium in to a complex U shape with flanges. This has meant that I have had to settle for a slightly off scale fit. The final dimensions are 41.6mm x 30mm x 41.6mm and 18mm flanges, instead of the 38.1 x 38.1 x 38.1 with 20.32mm flanges called out on the GA at Frame 8. A frustrating, to be honest, but necessary compromise. (Imperial.. should be 1.6" x 1.6" x 1.6" with flanges 0.8" but is 1.638" x 1.18" x 1.638" with a 0.72" flanges)
This was achieved by paring down 50mm x50mm x 1.5mm ali tubing and fixing 20mm x 20mm angle aluminium onto it. The rivetting was all able to be placed so that it will not be visible on the finished product..(hidden by Frames, accessories etc).. and the joins on the upper face will be sealed with car "bog". so the pieces will look like a single, folded structure. I’m just hoping that the rectangular profile in the cockpit is not too noticeable against the apparent square profile of the original longeron.
The difference in width was easily accommodated in Supermarine's "fudge factor" in the GAs and line widths etc. The flanges are a tiny bit thicker than called out for but easily fit and will add extra strength. I’m not getting any younger and want to be able to place full weight on the structure to lower myself in!
The lower longerons are also not correct and are, in fact, quite a bit different. But they are not really visible in the cockpit and I can always make inserts to go over the top where they are seen. The more compact design will add strength to the base of the frames too, reducing the “cut-out" size and increasing the area of the Frame faces at the joins.…again, desirable as there is no engine area adding strength up front, no wings on the side and no tapered tail section adding it at the rear. It will also allow wheels to be attached to them to make the cockpit mobile.
And while on the subject of compromise… I have to admit that I have decided to base ALL of the Frame widths on Frame 8. So there will not be the approximately ¾“ taper between Frames 8 and 11 that is on the real aircraft. This simplifies construction, skinning AND importantly, the rear slide of the Canopy! So sue me
I don’t think it will be perceptible to the eye…at least I hope not!
Sorry about the low quality pictures..will get some improved ones as we go along.
The four longerons. Thickest lower, thinnest upper.
The profile of the main upper. The flanges on the bottom need to be slightly bent out to fit on the frames. A job for later. I wish I had noticed before I joined them. It would have been easier to bend them to less than 90deg before attachment
And lastly, the final pattern for the sheet ali of Frame 8, including the overhang for the flanges and the Former for bending the sheet. I am learning ALL about preparation!! A raw pattern in wood off the blown up and printed GA, another with flange allowance, marked out from the original pattern and flanges measured and drawn in and thirdly, a Former routed from heavier wood from the original light wood pattern ex flanges… A printed paper pattern, full size and three patterns for each Frame! And I still need to cut undersized holes in the Former and route 45deg out to size for forming the lightening holes.
For reference, Frame 8 will be just about 34" wide (864mm) and just under 30" high.
I have also been sidetracked on another exciting project but that is mostly a "late night" thing which costs me sleep but nothing else and is helping to keep me sane!
Anyway......
FINALLY some major progress BUT surprisingly little to "show" for it.
The main upper longerons have been bugging me for quite some time. (since before Christmas, in fact). But the long lead time and many, many rethinks have finally borne fruit, I think.
I finally gave up on bending 2 metres of 1.5 mm aluminium in to a complex U shape with flanges. This has meant that I have had to settle for a slightly off scale fit. The final dimensions are 41.6mm x 30mm x 41.6mm and 18mm flanges, instead of the 38.1 x 38.1 x 38.1 with 20.32mm flanges called out on the GA at Frame 8. A frustrating, to be honest, but necessary compromise. (Imperial.. should be 1.6" x 1.6" x 1.6" with flanges 0.8" but is 1.638" x 1.18" x 1.638" with a 0.72" flanges)
This was achieved by paring down 50mm x50mm x 1.5mm ali tubing and fixing 20mm x 20mm angle aluminium onto it. The rivetting was all able to be placed so that it will not be visible on the finished product..(hidden by Frames, accessories etc).. and the joins on the upper face will be sealed with car "bog". so the pieces will look like a single, folded structure. I’m just hoping that the rectangular profile in the cockpit is not too noticeable against the apparent square profile of the original longeron.
The difference in width was easily accommodated in Supermarine's "fudge factor" in the GAs and line widths etc. The flanges are a tiny bit thicker than called out for but easily fit and will add extra strength. I’m not getting any younger and want to be able to place full weight on the structure to lower myself in!
The lower longerons are also not correct and are, in fact, quite a bit different. But they are not really visible in the cockpit and I can always make inserts to go over the top where they are seen. The more compact design will add strength to the base of the frames too, reducing the “cut-out" size and increasing the area of the Frame faces at the joins.…again, desirable as there is no engine area adding strength up front, no wings on the side and no tapered tail section adding it at the rear. It will also allow wheels to be attached to them to make the cockpit mobile.
And while on the subject of compromise… I have to admit that I have decided to base ALL of the Frame widths on Frame 8. So there will not be the approximately ¾“ taper between Frames 8 and 11 that is on the real aircraft. This simplifies construction, skinning AND importantly, the rear slide of the Canopy! So sue me
I don’t think it will be perceptible to the eye…at least I hope not!
Sorry about the low quality pictures..will get some improved ones as we go along.
The four longerons. Thickest lower, thinnest upper.
The profile of the main upper. The flanges on the bottom need to be slightly bent out to fit on the frames. A job for later. I wish I had noticed before I joined them. It would have been easier to bend them to less than 90deg before attachment
And lastly, the final pattern for the sheet ali of Frame 8, including the overhang for the flanges and the Former for bending the sheet. I am learning ALL about preparation!! A raw pattern in wood off the blown up and printed GA, another with flange allowance, marked out from the original pattern and flanges measured and drawn in and thirdly, a Former routed from heavier wood from the original light wood pattern ex flanges… A printed paper pattern, full size and three patterns for each Frame! And I still need to cut undersized holes in the Former and route 45deg out to size for forming the lightening holes.
For reference, Frame 8 will be just about 34" wide (864mm) and just under 30" high.
- Lewis - A2A
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Good stuff, and happy to see an update. Hope things are all ok with you man and start to look better soon for the death threats
cheers,
Lewis
cheers,
Lewis
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- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
As you well know Lewis,
When life hands you a SHoneT Sandwich, it's best just to take really big bites and get it over with.....
D
When life hands you a SHoneT Sandwich, it's best just to take really big bites and get it over with.....
D
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
A long weekend's work has seen all of the bits done for Frame 8 except the top sheet (that will be made during this week ) and the inside liner, which will be formed once the frame is assembled (hopefully next weekend) so that I can make sure it fits!
I have decided that my original swages/dimple dies (depending on which school you went to) are slightly the wrong size...if I am going to go to all of this trouble, they may as well be right, not "almost right". So I have made up some rounded blocks which just need the 45deg edge put on them.
I've got the hole saws to make the inner diametre, then the dies will be made to flange the holes out to the correct 1 3/4", 2 1/4" and 3" diametres.
Paper pattern with the sheets for the aft of Frame 8.
Forward Frame 8 sheets. The whole lot, cut, shaped and cleaned up ready for assembly.
Blank former (right) and pattern with flanges (left)
I have decided that my original swages/dimple dies (depending on which school you went to) are slightly the wrong size...if I am going to go to all of this trouble, they may as well be right, not "almost right". So I have made up some rounded blocks which just need the 45deg edge put on them.
I've got the hole saws to make the inner diametre, then the dies will be made to flange the holes out to the correct 1 3/4", 2 1/4" and 3" diametres.
Paper pattern with the sheets for the aft of Frame 8.
Forward Frame 8 sheets. The whole lot, cut, shaped and cleaned up ready for assembly.
Blank former (right) and pattern with flanges (left)
Last edited by Killratio on 11 May 2017, 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
- Posts: 5785
- Joined: 29 Jul 2008, 23:41
- Location: The South West of the large island off the north coast of Tasmania
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
I have also to give a huge thank you to Steve (bladerunner900) for an absolutely wonderful impression of how K9817 could have looked during her time at PDU ... although I suspect she was never painted up as she was only there 3 weeks and was probably sent back to maintenance because she was "tired"...
But you never know and the lack of history..whilst still actually having been at PDU/PRU.. gives room for licence....particularly with the organisation in a state of flux around that time!
She carries the (almost) standard "LY" of the time along with a much less common "hollowed out" 3rd code letter(in this case D for Darryl). It took a few to's and fro's and me changing my mind a bit but Steve was VERY patient with me and the end result is fantastic. I am quite sure K9817 and I will put quite a few miles behind us by the time we're done!
But you never know and the lack of history..whilst still actually having been at PDU/PRU.. gives room for licence....particularly with the organisation in a state of flux around that time!
She carries the (almost) standard "LY" of the time along with a much less common "hollowed out" 3rd code letter(in this case D for Darryl). It took a few to's and fro's and me changing my mind a bit but Steve was VERY patient with me and the end result is fantastic. I am quite sure K9817 and I will put quite a few miles behind us by the time we're done!
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
While researching K9817, I was fortunate to find an article, written by well known aviation writer Alec Lumsden,
who by pure coincidence made his first solo in her in February 1941. by that time her original Merlin II engine had been (just, I suspect)
changed for a Merlin III but she seems to be pretty much "as built".
I've posted it in the Pilot's Lounge.
who by pure coincidence made his first solo in her in February 1941. by that time her original Merlin II engine had been (just, I suspect)
changed for a Merlin III but she seems to be pretty much "as built".
I've posted it in the Pilot's Lounge.
- Lewis - A2A
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Beautiful stuff! Love the repaint!
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- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
Cheers Lewis,
I forgot, I also have to make the top plate and yet another swage (this one 1") for the Frame.
I'll feel a lot better once Frame 8 goes together as it has been a LONG road. The four separate sheets took hours to cut, shape and clean up to even edges.
I am hoping to cheat and get Frame 11 laser cut, due to it being twice the size of Frame 8 and quite complicated.... 8 sheets in total plus bracing.
Frames 7, 9 and 10 are considerably easier to build.
I forgot, I also have to make the top plate and yet another swage (this one 1") for the Frame.
I'll feel a lot better once Frame 8 goes together as it has been a LONG road. The four separate sheets took hours to cut, shape and clean up to even edges.
I am hoping to cheat and get Frame 11 laser cut, due to it being twice the size of Frame 8 and quite complicated.... 8 sheets in total plus bracing.
Frames 7, 9 and 10 are considerably easier to build.
- Killratio
- A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
- Posts: 5785
- Joined: 29 Jul 2008, 23:41
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Re: Spitfire I PR Conversion ... Sim Cockpit ... Almost ther
At last, some progress.
Frame 8 getting nearer each day. I've now learned all of the skills I needed to build the frame to "spec".
One blank and one partly formed sheet.
To the right, the other two sheets, almost ready to be riveted together with the stiffener/spacers.
Predrilled with rivet holes and with the swaged lightening holes all done.
First lot of aircraft rivets..a whole new skill/technique for me!
An example of the internal spacers/strengtheners
the forward side profile...as this is not seen from the cockpit, I have used pop rivest to make assembly quicker and easier
Finally a REALLY nice pickup from Replica Aircraft Parts today, a pair of early, single step rudder pedals.. pictures to follow.
Frame 8 getting nearer each day. I've now learned all of the skills I needed to build the frame to "spec".
One blank and one partly formed sheet.
To the right, the other two sheets, almost ready to be riveted together with the stiffener/spacers.
Predrilled with rivet holes and with the swaged lightening holes all done.
First lot of aircraft rivets..a whole new skill/technique for me!
An example of the internal spacers/strengtheners
the forward side profile...as this is not seen from the cockpit, I have used pop rivest to make assembly quicker and easier
Finally a REALLY nice pickup from Replica Aircraft Parts today, a pair of early, single step rudder pedals.. pictures to follow.
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