Short Fuse Sallee

[jcblom]

Work in progress:

[Tug002]

Looking good.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Lewis - A2A]

Interesting scheme, never seen the stars around the blue nose like that before. Good stuff

Cheers,
Lewis


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[Alan_A]

never seen the stars around the blue nose like that before

Late war colors for the 356th FS, 354th FG (the "Red Ass" squadron, named, IIRC, because of the effect of sitting for hours in the cockpit on a hard parachute pack...)

First unit to fly the P51B in combat in Europe.

Their OD P51-B's had a solid white nose, visible here.

Thanks to Jan for taking on Sallee, which, thanks to my childhood reading of Turner's memoir, "Big Friend, Little Friend," is an old devotion of mine...

[Lewis - A2A]

Ahh just looked it up based at Boxted down in Essex. Interesting, I had seen the star on the later war P-47's with the mirage of colours that started to appear but never on a Mustang. You learn something (several) new things everyday

Thanks,
Lewis


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[taildraggin68]

All of these beautiful paints for the Mustang, works of art, I'm going to need a bigger hard drive to store all of the ones I want

[Alan_A]

Interesting, I had seen the star on the later war P-47's with the mirage of colours that started to appear but never on a Mustang.

The squadron was converted to P-47's for a brief time in 1944 - I think that's when the stars came in. Looks like they kept them when they switched back to Mustangs.

Reference on this page - scroll down (it's the eighth one from the top).

[robert41]

Nice looking paint Jankees.

[Lewis - A2A]

Yes Alan when I googled on the FG website under the history section is an actual piece about the pilot and the aircraft Jankees has painted. Without getting too much into it I like a brief history as for me over here it almost always ends up being local history. I grew up and am a Lincolnshire Bomber county lad but now I'm down in East Anglia amongst the old 8th AF stomping grounds. I still recommend to all the Americans that do get the chance to come to England to wherever possible get out of the main tourist area of London and venture over to East Anglia. So much here hasn't changed when you get out in the sticks so you can really lap up the history and often go to the exact same villages, pubs and seaside resorts that all of the 8th AF personal use to visit and call home. Being able to have this connection to this period in history is what got me interested in this period of history and keeps me fascinated. It's my own way of linking it to my own modern day life.

Cheers,
Lewis


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[Alan_A]

@Lewis - I understand completely what you're saying. A few years ago I moved from New York City, where I was born and grew up, to the Washington DC area, which puts me in the heart of the eastern campaigns of the American Civil War. There's an enormous amount of history within a 30-90 minute drive. I've started to take advantage - but not nearly enough. I'll try to make it a point to block time for East Anglia (which I know mainly for Benjamin Britten, not nearly enough for its 8th AF heritage) the next time I'm in the neighborhood.

EDIT: By the way, reviewing the 354th FG website, it looks as though the white-nose-and-stars motif was applied first to the Mustang and then transferred to the Thunderbolts, not the other way around, as I'd previously thought. Makes sense - Turner had rotated home before the three-month switch to P-47s in November '44, and only got back to the group after VE Day, so the Mustang as Jankees has painted it has to precede the P-47 version. Turner's later (actually his last) P-51 was called "Short Fuse," without Sallee - she seems to have Dear John-ed him, maybe when he was stateside. So Sallee with the stars on the nose is definitely a combat aircraft and definitely pre-Thunderbolt.

Now, where would we all be without this kind of history as seen through the microscope?

[renaissanceman]

Late war colors for the 356th FS, 354th FG (the "Red Ass" squadron, named, IIRC, because of the effect of sitting for hours in the cockpit on a hard parachute pack...)

First unit to fly the P51B in combat in Europe.

Hi Alan_A,

Just to pick a nit here: The 8th Air Force fighter groups used a back-pack style parachute and sat on a folded rubber dinghy which was quite uncomfortable. I don't know when this setup was instituted so the 354th may have flown initially without the dinghy. In fact some of my reading indicates the USAAC had given no thought to safety when flying over water prior to arriving in England. The Brits advised and initially supplied them in air/sea rescue training and operations.

My father flew with the 359th FG, 369th FS and had first-hand knowledge of what his group called 'dinghy butt'. Even though he was told about the issue, on his first long mission he had to be helped out of the cockpit because his legs were so numb.

Jim

[Alan_A]

Late war colors for the 356th FS, 354th FG (the "Red Ass" squadron, named, IIRC, because of the effect of sitting for hours in the cockpit on a hard parachute pack...)

First unit to fly the P51B in combat in Europe.

Hi Alan_A,

Just to pick a nit here: The 8th Air Force fighter groups used a back-pack style parachute and sat on a folded rubber dinghy which was quite uncomfortable. I don't know when this setup was instituted so the 354th may have flown initially without the dinghy. In fact some of my reading indicates the USAAC had given no thought to safety when flying over water prior to arriving in England. The Brits advised and initially supplied them in air/sea rescue training and operations.

My father flew with the 359th FG, 369th FS and had first-hand knowledge of what his group called 'dinghy butt'. Even though he was told about the issue, on his first long mission he had to be helped out of the cockpit because his legs were so numb.

Jim

I'm sure you're right. I tracked down the reference in Turner's memoir (it's on p. 65 of the original hardcover edition) and he refers to "up five hours of sitting in the cramped cockpit... The discomfort led us to adopt as our squadron insignia a cavorting Red Ass." But no mention of parachutes - that was my mistaken recollection. In all likelihood, "dinghy butt" it was.

[Lewis - A2A]

Hey Alan,

If you use Duxford as the gateway then you get the big museum and cemetery just outside Duxford and then work you way across to the coast. The museums get smaller and sometimes just a single hanger or tower but often its plenty enough for you to feel like you are there. Esp at places like Thorpe Abbots.

cheers,
Lewis

[Alan_A]

That's great to know, Lewis - I'll definitely plan on using Duxford as my way in. Actually would like to make that the starting point for a WWII tour across the continent. It was my father's and father-in-law's war (my father was posted to DC, my father-in-law followed the front in VII Corps, 92nd Replacement Battalion) so the connection is strong. American Civil War is a good fascination to have but this is much more immediate, so the odds are high that I'll make the trip at some point.

[jcblom]

meanwhile, I've made a bit more progress, only one small thing to change and I think I'm ready, so if you see anything wrong, now is the time to say so, because I hope to finish it tomorrow...