Drop Tanks

[PonyDriver]

Any way to model/map in using the drop tanks on the CIV Mustang?

[renaissanceman]

Hi PonyDriver,

The simple answer is no.

The reason stated somewhere in the P-51 forum is that FAA does not allow droppable fuel tanks on civilian aircraft. The aircraft you see at airshows with drop tanks have them bolted to the airframe.

Jim

[Bomber_12th]

"Happy Jack's Go Buggy" has actually been flown regularly with functioning reproduction 108-gallon paper tanks (looks like the real thing, but made of carbon composite), and they are fully capable of being dropped, but the pilot is of course careful not to do so (one precaution is that the manual release levers are safety-wired). I can also add/confirm that the P-51B "Berlin Express" has been flown with drop tanks that could be released, and the P-51D "Sierra Sue II" has been flown with drop tanks and replica bombs that could be released, but in each case the release levers are also safety-wired. When the TFC TF-51D "Miss Velma" was flown across the Atlantic back in 2007, it carried functioning drop tanks that were also fully capable of being released in-case of an emergency. Some others have been operated similarly on long-distance cross-country flights, using functional drop tanks - whether or not being capable of being released, I don't know, though certainly several of them have the capability (like "Sierra Sue II", and some of the other straight-stock examples, where everything is there and functioning as per original - the only thing missing being live bullets and firing pins in the guns).

Still, what the civilian Mustang represents, you wouldn't expect it to be carrying drop tanks, though maybe fitted with "wet wings", or the addition of the ammo bay fuel tanks (another civilian mod), to add extra range. Most of those flying today that do carry/use drop tanks are generally those that have been restored to a very high level of authenticity that they are essentially, or completely, WWII military stock anyway, like "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" (with very basic/limited avionics that are in some cases even removable), and thus much better match the 'military' version than the 'civilian' version. As such, it should feel normal/accepted to fly the military version of the P-51D, fitted and using drop tanks, in the civilian airspace of FSX (though of course being mindful to not release them).

("Happy Jack's" is really quite the exception from the norm though too, as it is also one of just a couple which have been intentionally flown with fuel in the fuselage tank in recent years.)










Related to this, at an airshow I went to earlier this year, as John Bagley was preparing to leave in his P-63, the 75-gallon drop tanks were carted over to the aircraft (they had been removed for its aerobatic performance). It took a bit of time for them to be hooked-up to the plane, and once they were secure, they were filled/capped-off by the fuel truck - it played-out very much like a scene straight out of a wartime airfield.

[renaissanceman]

Well I stand corrected.

My only source is my memory of a post some time ago in the P-51 forum. I'll have to search for that to see if my memory has failed me!

Jim

[renaissanceman]

OK, I found the drop tank post I was thinking of. Here it is:

FAA requires drop tanks (if carried) to be bolted to the airframe for in-flight transit. They CAN be removable on the ground.
Unless required for some reason (authentic period display) most civilian Mustang operators have opted not to bother with external tanks. They cause a lot of drag and really aren't necessary as almost all flights involving Mustang onwership are conducted well within the available range with internal tank capacity.
DH

From this thread: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 34#p246934

It appears the key phrase is "in-flight transit." I have not found the FAR that specifies this, but here is the one that deals with dropping objects:

Sec. 91.15

Dropping objects.

No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.

From the FAA site: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enDocument

So dropping objects, and the implied ability to do so, is allowed if "reasonable precautions" are taken.

The real point concerning the OP's post is mentioned in Dudley's post above. If the wing and fuselage tanks are full, the P-51 has great range. I flew a simulated escort mission in the military P-51 from England to Berlin and back following one of the documented routes used in WW2. I carried full fuel including combat tanks (75 Gal) and fuselage tank. I returned to base with more than half fuel in the wing tanks. On the ingress part of the route at 24,000 Ft, the combat tanks caused quite a bit of drag so I had to keep my MP and RPM pretty high to maintain speed.

Jim

[DHenriques_]

OK, I found the drop tank post I was thinking of. Here it is:

FAA requires drop tanks (if carried) to be bolted to the airframe for in-flight transit. They CAN be removable on the ground.
Unless required for some reason (authentic period display) most civilian Mustang operators have opted not to bother with external tanks. They cause a lot of drag and really aren't necessary as almost all flights involving Mustang onwership are conducted well within the available range with internal tank capacity.
DH

From this thread: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 34#p246934

It appears the key phrase is "in-flight transit." I have not found the FAR that specifies this, but here is the one that deals with dropping objects:

Sec. 91.15

Dropping objects.

No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.

From the FAA site: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enDocument

So dropping objects, and the implied ability to do so, is allowed if "reasonable precautions" are taken.

The real point concerning the OP's post is mentioned in Dudley's post above. If the wing and fuselage tanks are full, the P-51 has great range. I flew a simulated escort mission in the military P-51 from England to Berlin and back following one of the documented routes used in WW2. I carried full fuel including combat tanks (75 Gal) and fuselage tank. I returned to base with more than half fuel in the wing tanks. On the ingress part of the route at 24,000 Ft, the combat tanks caused quite a bit of drag so I had to keep my MP and RPM pretty high to maintain speed.

Jim

The FAA used to demand they were bolted to the hard points. I've been asking around the 51 community this morning for answers to the "current thinking" on the issue.
What I'm getting back is that the regs are the same which I already know and that the general view is " Mmmmmmmmmm.........well................Mmmmmmmmmm...........let's hope nobody actually manages to drop one". )
DH

[Bomber_12th]

At the 2007 Planes of Fame airshow, I remember that one of the two external drop tanks that were being carried on the Planes of Fame F-86 was mistakenly jettisoned during a flyby - fortunately, due to all of the safety precautions/crowd-line distance, it landed several hundred feet away from the nearest person.

[DHenriques_]

At the 2007 Planes of Fame airshow, I remember that one of the two external drop tanks that were being carried on the Planes of Fame F-86 was mistakenly jettisoned during a flyby - fortunately, due to all of the safety precautions/crowd-line distance, it landed several hundred feet away from the nearest person.

Yes, for the 86 that line is 1500 feet and a good thing we have that for sure.
Dudley Henriques

[renaissanceman]

Thanks Dudley and Bomber, this appears to be somewhat of a grey area. I certainly would not want to be in a crowd under a dropped tank even if empty.

Jim

[DHenriques_]

Thanks Dudley and Bomber, this appears to be somewhat of a grey area. I certainly would not want to be in a crowd under a dropped tank even if empty.

Jim

I will add this.
Even without talking with the guys carrying these tanks, regardless of any gray area I'm certain that whatever they are doing when carrying the tanks is within the regulations. Just a wild guess I would make is that when the tanks are installed they are wired on and the releases secured as well.
I'm positive the guys wouldn't be doing anything illegal or unsafe.
They might "stretch" a rule or two but they usually don't break them.
DH