Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

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sloppysmusic
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Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by sloppysmusic »

Hi,
The tough weather and scenery I endured during the 100 hour Papua New Guineas Tour eventually led to exhaustion/pilot error and subsequent loss of control twice in flight. I'd love to hear from y'all as to exactly what i did wrong, although I have some ideas.
Also after losing control could I have rescued the situation in either situation? I certainly had enough altitude in the second.

Crash 1:
I'm sure this is a left wing stall. As admitted in video I am startled by arriving at the Tapini airstrip faster than expected and instead of flying a circle and slowing down I just throw the anchors out. Except what worked before in a lighter GA plane does NOT here.
I believe as my speed was right above stall speed at 100kts that turning sharp left (speed drops to 90) meant that the left wing was actually traveling less than 90 and ...stalled. Obviously I learned my lesson after that with tight turns in the Mustang before landing - could I have rescued the stall in this
case or was it too late with the ground so close?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34fu4waGI

Crash 2:
Very tired after a long session, and lots of heavy cloud to deal with. I somehow survived all previous episodes of total vision loss with mountains around me but now at altitude with no reason to panic I suffered 'spacial awareness' loss?
Initial loss of control caused by bad timing..reduced power to start descent and cloud hits me seconds later. While normally I could have controlled the descent rate after seeing visually I was descending too fast I was disorientated by loss of vision and subsequently panicked when noticing the excessive altitude loss on instruments by climbing without adding power at same time?
In hindsight just turning AP on and leveling off might have been a smart choice here. Didn't seem too much of a problem until too late though. Trying to level off inverted and cutting power completely out of desperation didn't help me either.
This situation SHOULD have been recoverable after I started spinning yes?
So..how do you correct a spin in this situation with zero visibility? Let go of controls completely? I would love to know how to deal with this if it occurs again! Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ87UI1tZdU

Once again fantastic plane for making me panic! TOO real sometimes :D

flapman
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Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by flapman »

Video 1 was a classic "skid, stall, spin" base-to-final scenario. Your turn was uncoordinated. Don't turn your aircraft with rudder, turn your aircraft with bank angle! Use the rudder to keep the turn coordinated. You could have recovered from the stall if your recognition and recovery were immediate. But, as you mentioned, I don't think you had the climb rate to make a successful go around with that terrain.

There's a wealth of literature online about this scenario. It kills a great deal of unprepared real life pilots.

Video 2 was a classic "VFR into IMC." scenario. Based on the location of the terrain, I think your initial descent was a good choice. Most instructors would never suggest you do that, but I think a 2-300 foot descent would be worth a try. Looking at your video, I doubt that descent was intentional on your part. I suspect you already lost control of the aircraft. It looks like your panic reaction was to pull back on the stick and shove the throttle forward. You pulled ~3G's until it looks like you entered an accelerated stall which developed into an inverted spin.

The spin recovery memory aid is P-A-R-E

Power: IDLE
Ailerons: NEUTRAL
Rudder: OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF ROTATION
--when rotation stops--
Elevator: FORWARD TO BREAK STALL

If you're inverted, then google says you should pull elevator to get the nose below the horizon.

sloppysmusic
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Posts: 177
Joined: 20 Jan 2017, 13:19
Location: Daytona Beach
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Re: Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by sloppysmusic »

Thanks Flapman that was just what I was looking for! My question about video 2 is that if you are spinning fast and cant see outside cockpit, plus instruments 'going haywire' how can you tell if you are in a left or right spin? Or would you just try right rudder first..nothing after a few seconds then left rudder?
You'd have to have a calm head to diagnose that way IRL!
Thanks again...I learn the most from my mistakes.

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DHenriques_
A2A Chief Pilot
Posts: 5711
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 08:31
Location: East Coast United States

Re: Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by DHenriques_ »

sloppysmusic wrote:Hi,
The tough weather and scenery I endured during the 100 hour Papua New Guineas Tour eventually led to exhaustion/pilot error and subsequent loss of control twice in flight. I'd love to hear from y'all as to exactly what i did wrong, although I have some ideas.
Also after losing control could I have rescued the situation in either situation? I certainly had enough altitude in the second.

Crash 1:
I'm sure this is a left wing stall. As admitted in video I am startled by arriving at the Tapini airstrip faster than expected and instead of flying a circle and slowing down I just throw the anchors out. Except what worked before in a lighter GA plane does NOT here.
I believe as my speed was right above stall speed at 100kts that turning sharp left (speed drops to 90) meant that the left wing was actually traveling less than 90 and ...stalled. Obviously I learned my lesson after that with tight turns in the Mustang before landing - could I have rescued the stall in this
case or was it too late with the ground so close?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34fu4waGI

Crash 2:
Very tired after a long session, and lots of heavy cloud to deal with. I somehow survived all previous episodes of total vision loss with mountains around me but now at altitude with no reason to panic I suffered 'spacial awareness' loss?
Initial loss of control caused by bad timing..reduced power to start descent and cloud hits me seconds later. While normally I could have controlled the descent rate after seeing visually I was descending too fast I was disorientated by loss of vision and subsequently panicked when noticing the excessive altitude loss on instruments by climbing without adding power at same time?
In hindsight just turning AP on and leveling off might have been a smart choice here. Didn't seem too much of a problem until too late though. Trying to level off inverted and cutting power completely out of desperation didn't help me either.
This situation SHOULD have been recoverable after I started spinning yes?
So..how do you correct a spin in this situation with zero visibility? Let go of controls completely? I would love to know how to deal with this if it occurs again! Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ87UI1tZdU

Once again fantastic plane for making me panic! TOO real sometimes :D
One thing you have to remember always no matter what aircraft you're flying is that the stall speed increases as the sq root of the load factor. In other words in a turn, ANY turn, you will stall at a higher airspeed than in level flight.
In a Mustang, if you start a turn at 100mph and don't unload the wings, (nose down), you are certain to stall. If that turn is a skid you will stall into the low wing. At pattern altitude in a Mustang that is most likely not recoverable.
Dudley Henriques

sloppysmusic
Senior Airman
Posts: 177
Joined: 20 Jan 2017, 13:19
Location: Daytona Beach
Contact:

Re: Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by sloppysmusic »

"One thing you have to remember always no matter what aircraft you're flying is that the stall speed increases as the sq root of the load factor. In other words in a turn, ANY turn, you will stall at a higher airspeed than in level flight.
In a Mustang, if you start a turn at 100mph and don't unload the wings, (nose down), you are certain to stall. If that turn is a skid you will stall into the low wing. At pattern altitude in a Mustang that is most likely not recoverable.
Dudley Henriques"

That's excellent too thanks Dudley.
I need to do some practice spins and stalls before long, I need to notice what's happening before it does, and how to get out if it when it is possible.
(Why don't A2A warbirds come with parachutes?!)
:D

I love the math part of it..I can equate (groan...).
I have a question here:
We are arriving at a strip and our left wing tank has say 30 pounds of fuel more than the right one. Given the choice and calm winds would it be sensible to make a right circuit instead of a left one?
With large airports with plenty of space we can keep our speed up in the safe zone until final, but on a small strip like this one with only a left hand visible circuit available (which I landed on my next attempt below) would it be sensible to keep the load 'lighter' on the left wing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SziR8M6_wBk
(landing at 19:00)

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DHenriques_
A2A Chief Pilot
Posts: 5711
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 08:31
Location: East Coast United States

Re: Advice wanted please to diagnose pilot error crashes

Post by DHenriques_ »

sloppysmusic wrote:"One thing you have to remember always no matter what aircraft you're flying is that the stall speed increases as the sq root of the load factor. In other words in a turn, ANY turn, you will stall at a higher airspeed than in level flight.
In a Mustang, if you start a turn at 100mph and don't unload the wings, (nose down), you are certain to stall. If that turn is a skid you will stall into the low wing. At pattern altitude in a Mustang that is most likely not recoverable.
Dudley Henriques"

That's excellent too thanks Dudley.
I need to do some practice spins and stalls before long, I need to notice what's happening before it does, and how to get out if it when it is possible.
(Why don't A2A warbirds come with parachutes?!)
:D

I love the math part of it..I can equate (groan...).
I have a question here:
We are arriving at a strip and our left wing tank has say 30 pounds of fuel more than the right one. Given the choice and calm winds would it be sensible to make a right circuit instead of a left one?
With large airports with plenty of space we can keep our speed up in the safe zone until final, but on a small strip like this one with only a left hand visible circuit available (which I landed on my next attempt below) would it be sensible to keep the load 'lighter' on the left wing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SziR8M6_wBk
(landing at 19:00)
30 gals differential isn't a problem in a Mustang. Just fly your normal pattern.
DH

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