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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Well to be fair, looking at the P-51 in spot view does look kind of awkward when the throttles are pushed up to their max and the plane is traveling like a missile. The data we are using to come up with these negative AoA values are only as accurate as how they are recorded, how the wing is shaped, etc. You can still be right that it may be excessively nose down, but then again, 1 or 2 degrees from the horizontal means to the pilot less than a quarter of a dot on his/her attitude indicator :). The issue really just comes down to the plausibility of whether or not a P-51 actually looks like that in high speeds and it's difficult to do that without a real P-51 being pushed to such speeds.

You live close to Van Nuys? That's awesome. Always wanted to make a trip there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Yeah, I'm in studio city. About 10 minutes from Van Nuys. I started my private there outa King Aviation when I was 17, 41 now. Volunteered helping an A&P clean his hanger to get free time in his tomahawk. Had a Pa28140 tied down at Jet west for years until I sold it in 2005. Tried commercial aviation for 4 years but couldnt support my family on regional FO pay. Now I just beat up my friends zlin, s2b and decathlon in the aerobatic area around Santa Paula and Mohave. As I mentioned to ya when we spoke on the phone, if you ever make it out here, ring me up and I can get you some seat time in one of those fun birds.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:53 pm 
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CAPFlyer wrote:


While washout typically means the wingtip has a lower angle of incidence than the root, it is not universal. However, I don't see this as the case with the screenshots shown elsewhere without the harsh shadowing that makes it difficult to determine the chord line of the tip in the screenshots here. I see a slight washout from root to tip. The problem is the wing/body fairing is huge and not proportional to the wing shape making it deceptive to the actual wing chord. However, the charts referenced before seem to indicate the tip will stall before the root, so it's also possible that indeed the washout is inverse to normal. Remember, the overriding desire of the North American team was creating the most maneuverable airplane possible, but also one with the longest range. This is why the laminar flow wing was so important and why so much was done to ensure that it was the overriding point of focus for maintenance in the field behind the engine. There were things done to the wing that were unique to the P-51 because it was also the only one using a laminar flow wing at the time.



Then I gather that it MUST have "inverse washout," as you call it, then. Would that explain why the Mustang always drops a wing in the stall, or is that just due to torque? I don't have the Spitfire, but I thought that the Spitfire has a more conventional washout with the tips at a lower angle of incidence. How does the Spit behave in the stall?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:25 pm 
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The wing drop is both torque and the tips stalling first from what I understand.

As for the Spit, I don't believe it has any washout due to its unique elliptical wing. In fact the wing until the later Griffon clip-wing and Seafire models doesn't really have a tip, just a point. Its aerodynamics are unique to it among piston fighters. Not even the Hurricane with a somewhat similar wing behaves the same. I will leave the technicalities of that to guys whom are more intimate with them than I.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Try controlling the 51 with just feet and try to keep Airlerons neutral as you transition into the buffet and proceed into the full stall. Keep the stick full back and maintain wings level with your feet only. You will end up in a "Falling Leaf" and it's a great maneuver to practice foot work. And quite enjoyable but really challenging with the 51.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:16 am 
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Sorry, been busy lately.

Just got off the phone with my old Boss that I used to work for when I was building time as a traffic watch pilot in Los Angeles. It just happens that he owned P-51D "N514DK" durring the period when I was working for him. This is also the plane that I would gawk over everyday when I came to work. (Does the tail number sound familiar? It should, A2A modeled it in the paintpack)

Anyway, after the phone conversation, I emailed him over some screenshots of the Accusim-P-51D in level flight and he said he will get back to me on his opinion.


JB

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:12 am 
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So, just out of curiousity, what was the official A2A consensus on this? Was it "off", was it not wrong to begin with, was it fixed in 1.4, etc...?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:30 am 
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bigjuicyspider wrote:
So, just out of curiousity, what was the official A2A consensus on this? Was it "off", was it not wrong to begin with, was it fixed in 1.4, etc...?


Bump. I'm curious about this too... Still "feels" like I'm in a dive when I'm level.

Cheers!

Bud

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:51 pm 
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We're waiting on some flight tests to come back. Scott.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:11 pm 
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It does indeed look like you were in a slight dive when flying level according to the gauge.

It's really not uncommon to have fuselage pointed slightly low when flying low and fast, as it's a compromise between air resistance of fuselage at high AOA and low AOA, and you would not like the fuselage to point upward when flying level at low speed either. In Spitfire, I can see the fuselage point slightly down when flying low and fast... but wings are practically parallel to airflow at near-zero (but also non-negative) AOA. With A2A Mustang, AOA is clearly negative for the wings... and the wing profile of real P-51D, as someone already mentioned, is even less likely to produce any lift at zero AOA than your average warbird.


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