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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Oesau wrote:
pjc747 wrote:
777 Studios, who make Rise of Flight, have a WWII game, although I don't know how good it really is.


Do you mean WWI?


They have both:

http://777studios.net/

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:19 pm 
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I have heard about that, Wings of Prey.

The problem I have with it is that it is a bit lacking in the simulation department, great otherwise for people who just want to pray and spray but again it lacks fidelity and depth for me :roll:

The other problem is Cliffs of Dover. :evil: Too much effort went into small things like the Regia Aeronautica flyables, numerous models and variants of other aircraft and the inclusion of some most people won't bother with. These could have all been added in an expansion pack with another theatre or just as extra content. As well too much emphasis on graphical quality of ground vehicles which people will buzz by in a second. Add to this a great but troubled graphical engine (soon to be fixed) and great ground vehicle AI and you only have something that is half baked. Plus the Flight Model's and poor enemy AI leave a lot to be desired, I can't actually fly their Spitfire :? it bears no resemblance whatsoever even in absolute figures such as maximum speeds or average climb rates.

All in all the one reason people keep asking for FSX with weapons, I understand the arguments against, and the likes is that the combat simulation community is so poorly supported and projects even more poorly executed (Ironically IL2 COD has ended up like a symbolic implementation of the campaign the first series brought to us - operation barbarossa :lol: I guess we ask because we feel safer knowing A2A, VRS or someone competent is on top of things. A2A's philosophy has been pretty much if you can't do it right, don't bother. Where you can do something right, do it right, really right.
It's a shame they don't have the infinite resources we all wish they did :cry: :wink:

I guess I will have to wait till COD is patched; if they don't get it right I am going to photocopy several pages of testing data from Martlesham Heath and several chapter from the Morgan and Shacklady book on the Spitfire with notes, and possibly do the same for all the other aircraft. :mrgreen:

P.S. @Mig_Driver I heard you can get a MiG-21 pretty cheap on the market ($75,000) its just the ~$4000 worth of fuel per hour.
If A2A do however produce I have some quality Soviet Training Scheme's - KULP BS IA-68 :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:09 am 
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DCS P-51 is in its startholes and released shortly- other histo´DCs´s will follow- think thats a good base for shooting against-

For me, Fsx is the FLIGHT SIM of flying, A2A simulates the pure essence of these old birds, how to work with the avionics, how to care about the engine and the most important of all parts together- how to fly it correctly...
I think aircombat is a total different thing (don´t ge me wrong- i have all DCS´s, ROF, FC2.0 aso. if my fingers gets nervous :mrgreen: ) for a simulation.
Once in a documentation film, a military pilot said "its a shame that we love all these birds who are build for only one reason- to kill"

Mr. Dudley or any other real Pilot, whats the reason you fly such a war- plane in real life? the sound, the speed or what- if you could put a few sentences here would be nice! Thnx

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:12 am 
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For sure it would be something amazing to have an accusimed plane which can fire its gunnery, and can receive "accusimed" damages...But I think it request a very consequent amount of work: when a plane receive a bullet anywhere, it damages some parts higher than other parts...so they have to simulate it with all damages a plane can receive, with all concequences it implies (immediatly or on long run...). I played on several war simulation games, and there is allways te same damages...You know when you're hit in the engine, there is white or black smoke, fire, and it finally cut off...and it's the same for all part of planes...I never found a game where you can manage your plane according to the damages it takes, and, with luck or a lot of mastery, take it back home.
I agree that a game like that wouldn't meet a lot of success in the air combat games community, due to its complexity. I don't know if it's poossible to realise it with FS (because it's mainly a civil aviation simulator)...
You spoke about WOP. I played it for a long time, and I was excited to fly WWII fighters in an immersive game (I didn't play any WWII air combat games since Microsoft CFS 2 :oops: :oops: ), but I realised quickly that AI were bad, and some planes were boosted and other downgraded (La7 and p-51 for example. The last one is totally unusable in this game :roll: )
I think a2a only gives us the essence of flying these birds (agree with you Kobradelta1000) and I can only support them to continue this way. It give us the complexity and delicacy of flying them without the danger of ennemy planes!!

"Mr. Dudley or any other real Pilot, whats the reason you fly such a war- plane in real life? the sound, the speed or what- if you could put a few sentences here would be nice! Thnx"
I think it's like to drive a old car with sound and vibrations...(but with a 1600hp engine under the hood!!!!)You can't get that in recent cars, where confort and driving assistance are integral parts of it...like current planes...
And finally, warbirds from WWII are, from my point of view, most beautiful planes Human being made till now, and this for all nations...(messershmitt 109, fock-wulf 190, spitfires, mustang, Zero, Dewoitine 520......... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ), and keep them in flight is a good thing!!


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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:50 am 
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jasonmcmillan wrote:
For sure it would be something amazing to have an accusimed plane which can fire its gunnery, and can receive "accusimed" damages...But I think it request a very consequent amount of work: when a plane receive a bullet anywhere, it damages some parts higher than other parts...so they have to simulate it with all damages a plane can receive, with all concequences it implies (immediatly or on long run...). I played on several war simulation games, and there is allways te same damages...You know when you're hit in the engine, there is white or black smoke, fire, and it finally cut off...and it's the same for all part of planes...I never found a game where you can manage your plane according to the damages it takes, and, with luck or a lot of mastery, take it back home.
I agree that a game like that wouldn't meet a lot of success in the air combat games community, due to its complexity. I don't know if it's poossible to realise it with FS (because it's mainly a civil aviation simulator)...
You spoke about WOP. I played it for a long time, and I was excited to fly WWII fighters in an immersive game (I didn't play any WWII air combat games since Microsoft CFS 2 :oops: :oops: ), but I realised quickly that AI were bad, and some planes were boosted and other downgraded (La7 and p-51 for example. The last one is totally unusable in this game :roll: )
I think a2a only gives us the essence of flying these birds (agree with you Kobradelta1000) and I can only support them to continue this way. It give us the complexity and delicacy of flying them without the danger of ennemy planes!!

"Mr. Dudley or any other real Pilot, whats the reason you fly such a war- plane in real life? the sound, the speed or what- if you could put a few sentences here would be nice! Thnx"
I think it's like to drive a old car with sound and vibrations...(but with a 1600hp engine under the hood!!!!)You can't get that in recent cars, where confort and driving assistance are integral parts of it...like current planes...
And finally, warbirds from WWII are, from my point of view, most beautiful planes Human being made till now, and this for all nations...(messershmitt 109, fock-wulf 190, spitfires, mustang, Zero, Dewoitine 520......... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ), and keep them in flight is a good thing!!


Rise of Flight is an excellent game, especially in the damages section. I was doing a 'quick mission' in a Fokker E.III trying to shoot down a Handley-Page O-400. The bombers were flying very low, around 1,000 feet above the target, and they dropped the big 1650lb bomb, and at an altitude of 900 feet (enough to hit the bombers but be protected from the machine gun fire) the bomb's shockwave tore the ailerons off the triplane, and I was forced to attempt a crash landing using the rudder and elevator. Very tricky, and very realistic. Airspeed will tear off control surfaces, g-load will tear a wing, or all of them off, and bullets can cause an engine to start losing oil, catch on fire, or seize. I was also flying a Handley-Page O-400, when we were swarmed by the Albatros airplanes from behind. They began shooting at us, but the gunners were keeping us relatively safe. However, one Albatros managed to kill the pilot of a nearby O-400, and he began sharply banking straight into my plane. I was unable to move in time, and the other O-400 collided with me, knocking off the big and little wing on the port side (it’s a sesquiplane, so it has two pairs of unevenly sized wings). My rudder, starboard ailerons, and elevators were still intact (although one strut between the top and bottom starboard wing had cracked through completely) and before it had a chance to begin a spin and tear off the other wings, I managed to maneuver it into the 'jackknife' orientation, using my rudder as an elevator, elevator as rudder, etc. This orientation allowed the remaining wings to provide controllable lift for flight, and I carefully descended towards the ground, and at about 700 feet, I rolled back to the level position, and kept control just long enough to plow into the earth, saving my life (the other guys died, and my face was covered in blood, and my 'ears' were ringing). It was as stressful as a game could be, and very believable. 777 Studios has done an excellent job with this game.

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:22 pm 
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McDonnell-Douglas wrote:
P.S. @Mig_Driver I heard you can get a MiG-21 pretty cheap on the market ($75,000) its just the ~$4000 worth of fuel per hour.
If A2A do however produce I have some quality Soviet Training Scheme's - KULP BS IA-68 :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Quote:
Mr. Dudley or any other real Pilot, whats the reason you fly such a war- plane in real life? the sound, the speed or what- if you could put a few sentences here would be nice! Thnx


I've enjoyed flying them. My main area of interest with these aircraft however focuses on my role as a safety adviser, so my approach could conceivably be considered more analytical than anything else.
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:56 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
pjc747 wrote:
Oesau wrote:
pjc747 wrote:
777 Studios, who make Rise of Flight, have a WWII game, although I don't know how good it really is.


Do you mean WWI?


They have both:

http://777studios.net/


Ah ok - 777 just market the WWII title, whilst with ROF they are the owners of it and distribute it. See that you have been enjoying ROF which is great to hear. I've been involved with ROF for over 3 years in the core beta team so I have a very soft spot for Rise of Flight :) It's been a interesting and insightful journey learning about WWI era aircraft, which admittedly up until ROF, I had very little interest in. I've always been a WWII era person, which a strong interest in German aircraft types however I've always had liking to the P-51 and looking forward to the A2A release which will be of it's usual high quality.

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:04 am 
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pjc747 wrote:
Rise of Flight is an excellent game, especially in the damages section. I was doing a 'quick mission' in a Fokker E.III trying to shoot down a Handley-Page O-400. The bombers were flying very low, around 1,000 feet above the target, and they dropped the big 1650lb bomb, and at an altitude of 900 feet (enough to hit the bombers but be protected from the machine gun fire) the bomb's shockwave tore the ailerons off the triplane, and I was forced to attempt a crash landing using the rudder and elevator. Very tricky, and very realistic. Airspeed will tear off control surfaces, g-load will tear a wing, or all of them off, and bullets can cause an engine to start losing oil, catch on fire, or seize. I was also flying a Handley-Page O-400, when we were swarmed by the Albatros airplanes from behind. They began shooting at us, but the gunners were keeping us relatively safe. However, one Albatros managed to kill the pilot of a nearby O-400, and he began sharply banking straight into my plane. I was unable to move in time, and the other O-400 collided with me, knocking off the big and little wing on the port side (it’s a sesquiplane, so it has two pairs of unevenly sized wings). My rudder, starboard ailerons, and elevators were still intact (although one strut between the top and bottom starboard wing had cracked through completely) and before it had a chance to begin a spin and tear off the other wings, I managed to maneuver it into the 'jackknife' orientation, using my rudder as an elevator, elevator as rudder, etc. This orientation allowed the remaining wings to provide controllable lift for flight, and I carefully descended towards the ground, and at about 700 feet, I rolled back to the level position, and kept control just long enough to plow into the earth, saving my life (the other guys died, and my face was covered in blood, and my 'ears' were ringing). It was as stressful as a game could be, and very believable. 777 Studios has done an excellent job with this game.


hmm so another good game to buy...Hey boss, can you give me more money please?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I have never deeply intersted in WWI planes but it looks great! Don't forget that was the beginning of aviation...a great time!!!


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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:00 pm 
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My roots, as it were, lie in WW1 aviation. ROF is a pretty good bash at it.

A couple of things do make me worry about the flight physics though..the main one being that tearing off your left wings sends you into a violent death spiral TO THE RIGHT. Not likely (er..not possible!)

When I see things like this it indicates to me that the physics are being manipulated rather than calculated. Canned effects may well be being used for cetain regimes of flight rather than (properly) calculated ones.


Apart from those reservations the game is great and has nice eye candy. The "notable" aircraft also have some limited fidelity to the originals..the Camel springs to mind..it isn't perfect but it IS the best Camel I have flown in any game.

Darryl

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Killratio wrote:
My roots, as it were, lie in WW1 aviation. ROF is a pretty good bash at it.

A couple of things do make me worry about the flight physics though..the main one being that tearing off your left wings sends you into a violent death spiral TO THE RIGHT. Not likely (er..not possible!)

When I see things like this it indicates to me that the physics are being manipulated rather than calculated. Canned effects may well be being used for cetain regimes of flight rather than (properly) calculated ones.


Apart from those reservations the game is great and has nice eye candy. The "notable" aircraft also have some limited fidelity to the originals..the Camel springs to mind..it isn't perfect but it IS the best Camel I have flown in any game.

Darryl


Well, you ave yet to fly the Accusim Sopwith Camel... (hint Scott, hint)

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:36 am 
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As Killratio said in the Spifire forums If you think the Spitfire was hard to fly and start then you would never get any flight time in the old WWI stuff :-)
They would blow up at the drop of a hat and that was while you where trying to start it :-)

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:40 am 
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Norforce wrote:
They would blow up at the drop of a hat and that was while you where trying to start it :-)



Accusim Me 163?? :D :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:32 am 
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Killratio wrote:


Accusim Me 163?? :D :D :D :D



Ahahah it would be interresting!! Sometimes you can take off properly, sometimes you don't have luck, and you burn in the cockipt or your plane suddenly explode...
But I don't know if they can still find enough accurate informations about how to fly it or how it feels in the air...


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 Post subject: P-51 Accusim Status
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:44 am 
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jasonmcmillan wrote:
Killratio wrote:


Accusim Me 163?? :D :D :D :D



Ahahah it would be interresting!! Sometimes you can take off properly, sometimes you don't have luck, and you burn in the cockipt or your plane suddenly explode...
But I don't know if they can still find enough accurate informations about how to fly it or how it feels in the air...


And sometimes while you have the animated ground crew fueling your plane, they go up in the flames because the fuel mixture is so "touchy."

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