A2A proves that "stock" simming makes a bad pilot!

[JonP01]

Well first up let me say that Flight Simming is my second love. My main love (the only semi-serious one) is race simming. But nonetheless, I have been a regular (but STOCK) MSFS user since the Windows 98 days (it took me many years to even get my first PC). So of course with those stock planes comes a heck of a lot of laziness. You can just get into them when you start FSX and just...fly. No need to worry about ANYTHING. It's even less bother than getting into your car to go to the supermarket.

So last week I buy the Cherokee and being an A2A product, it brought with it a whole new world of consequences, a.ka. (apart from anything else) remembering what state you left the aircraft in last time. OK...

So there I am flying along merrily just like I have in any stock aircraft, but of course thoroughly enjoying (particularly as a dedicated sim racer) the extraordinary physics that make you really feel like you are flying. And then what happens at a mere 2,500 ft halfway between YSCN and YSSY? My engine dies!!

Now excluding of course the whole real life consequences thing, the whole getting on the 6 o'clock news type of thing, the whole crash, injury and hospital stay thing, the whole insurance thing (you know, minor stuff like that), I still experienced the same level of disbelief that I am sure a real pilot would. Just not in a serious way of course. But still, it was a very genuine what the heck sort of a disbelief. And it took me a good 6 to 8 seconds I reckon to shake that complete sense of utter disbelief into any sort of action. But do you think I calmly scanned the instruments to see if there might be a clue as to what went wrong and how I might fix it? No! I'm still in pure disbelief mode. So then I start looking for somewhere to land. Luckily I was within gliding distance of Holsworthy airfield and not only managed to glide into there and make a perfect landing, but also managed to do a half circuit so I could land into the wind.

But you know what the real idiocy was behind all of this (apart from being lazy to begin with). Not just that after two decades of flight simming I never bothered about fuel. But that I never simply bothered to hit that lever on the left to select the other tank!! And I was wondering the whole time why I was wanting to correct an imagined roll trim problem!!

OK, so have a good laugh at my expense. Obviously if this had been real world stuff I would not have approached any of this flying remotely like I have in these sims / games (any more than having played so many first person shooters on war themes I'd be wanting to get out there for real and remotely do what I do in those sorts of games). But this is just one excellent example of where a product is so good, that (if you so wish) it will treat you back exactly the same way you treat it.

I've never really bought into add-ons before - certainly never in any remotely serious way. And I really only got this Cherokee because as a sim racer I just love great physics. We've been pretty lucky in the sim racing world. We've had great physics for a decade and a half. Maybe even longer depending on who you ask. But this whole consequences thing opens a whole new world. I will hopefully be replacing my nearly 10 year old machine soon so look forward to buying some of the more complex aircraft to run such as the Connie!

[DHenriques_]

Well first up let me say that Flight Simming is my second love. My main love (the only semi-serious one) is race simming. But nonetheless, I have been a regular (but STOCK) MSFS user since the Windows 98 days (it took me many years to even get my first PC). So of course with those stock planes comes a heck of a lot of laziness. You can just get into them when you start FSX and just...fly. No need to worry about ANYTHING. It's even less bother than getting into your car to go to the supermarket.

So last week I buy the Cherokee and being an A2A product, it brought with it a whole new world of consequences, a.ka. (apart from anything else) remembering what state you left the aircraft in last time. OK...

So there I am flying along merrily just like I have in any stock aircraft, but of course thoroughly enjoying (particularly as a dedicated sim racer) the extraordinary physics that make you really feel like you are flying. And then what happens at a mere 2,500 ft halfway between YSCN and YSSY? My engine dies!!

Now excluding of course the whole real life consequences thing, the whole getting on the 6 o'clock news type of thing, the whole crash, injury and hospital stay thing, the whole insurance thing (you know, minor stuff like that), I still experienced the same level of disbelief that I am sure a real pilot would. Just not in a serious way of course. But still, it was a very genuine what the heck sort of a disbelief. And it took me a good 6 to 8 seconds I reckon to shake that complete sense of utter disbelief into any sort of action. But do you think I calmly scanned the instruments to see if there might be a clue as to what went wrong and how I might fix it? No! I'm still in pure disbelief mode. So then I start looking for somewhere to land. Luckily I was within gliding distance of Holsworthy airfield and not only managed to glide into there and make a perfect landing, but also managed to do a half circuit so I could land into the wind.

But you know what the real idiocy was behind all of this (apart from being lazy to begin with). Not just that after two decades of flight simming I never bothered about fuel. But that I never simply bothered to hit that lever on the left to select the other tank!! And I was wondering the whole time why I was wanting to correct an imagined roll trim problem!!

OK, so have a good laugh at my expense. Obviously if this had been real world stuff I would not have approached any of this flying remotely like I have in these sims / games (any more than having played so many first person shooters on war themes I'd be wanting to get out there for real and remotely do what I do in those sorts of games). But this is just one excellent example of where a product is so good, that (if you so wish) it will treat you back exactly the same way you treat it.

I've never really bought into add-ons before - certainly never in any remotely serious way. And I really only got this Cherokee because as a sim racer I just love great physics. We've been pretty lucky in the sim racing world. We've had great physics for a decade and a half. Maybe even longer depending on who you ask. But this whole consequences thing opens a whole new world. I will hopefully be replacing my nearly 10 year old machine soon so look forward to buying some of the more complex aircraft to run such as the Connie!

What you have just described is exactly what we spend endless hours trying to replicate. We want the A2A experience to be as close to actual as a computer and creative minds can develop. As a real world pilot I have always had a particular soft spot for our Cherokee. When we were developing the 180 Scott sent me the panel images one evening. I thought he was playing a joke on me and had sent an image of the real airplane, it was THAT good. It completely fooled me, a pilot with lots of time instructing in the actual Cherokee 180.
Glad you like her. It might spur your imagination a bit to know that as good as the Cherokee was, what the team has created since the Cherokee is even better as we have incorporated new technology into every new plane as work on the new planes comes on line for development.
Dudley Henriques

[JonP01]

Well it is a cliche to say that I have spent the best $50 US in my life, but I really have with this aircraft. And I think it has also proven that the only reason flight simming can get boring is purely and simply because it isn't actually simulating things. That has changed with you A2A guys so bravo and many thanks. I've been incredibly busy moving interstate this last year and have moved to a rural area with a small to medium sized GA airfield. They have held world gliding championships here. When I go on my daily walks I will see Cessna Caravans flying over having only just taken off. You will see gliders in tow flying across the main street having literally just become airborne less than 15 second ago. Sadly for me, more than one permanent medical reason will never get me any licence or real world time behind a yoke or joystick, so these A2A planes can at least get me as close as possible to the sort of immersive and encompassing experience that I cannot ever experience in real life. And for that I am truly thankful.

[WB_FlashOver]

My first experience in flight simming was in the early 90's on a friends PC. It was a WWI simulator with Bi and Tri winged planes. The terrain was boxy, jagged and not pretty at all. As soon I got a capable PC of my own I purchased MS Combat Flight Simulator and my passion was revived. I flew sims FS98 on up through FSX, mainly helicopters, but it just never really held my interest for long and for the same reasons you give. I spent most of my time in CFS or IL2, getting bored quickly in non-combat sims. A friend talked me into trying the A2A B17. Ok, now this is way better than anything I had ever simmed in.

I was a good pilot and feared by some in the online games but once I tried Accusim, and the challenge it brought to simming, the competitive nature of online combat seemed less exciting. Now I love the challenge of improving my skills and proficiency in my A2A aircraft. My many hours and miles in the B17 watching how my flying is effecting the condition of my plane, the numerous relaxing flights in the Constellation that can turn to sweaty hands on every landing or the need to make important decisions on a moments notice as you loose pressurization at FL230, or the many other issues that could happen during your flight.

I know your excitement and welcome you to the A2A community.

Cheers
Roger

[Hook]

You have given us a very good description of something I recently read in a book.

There’s a terrific scene in the movie Spirit of St. Louis in which Jimmy Stewart’s engine dies abruptly—he runs a fuel tank dry. Only a great actor could make that look of stupefied amazement so real that you know that is exactly how you would feel if it happened to you.

Coonts, Stephen. The Cannibal Queen: A Flight Into the Heart of America (Kindle Locations 2584-2586). Open Road Media. Kindle Edition.

While I could understand Coonts' description, I could really feel yours.

In general, treat A2A aircraft as if they were the real thing. Read the manual before starting the sim the first time, then again after you've flown once or twice. Then again after you've flown several more flights. This is something I do for everything that has a manual, not just aircraft, because things in the manual will make more sense after you've been through it a few times. One of the things the manual suggests is to fly for one hour on one tank, then two hours on the other, then switch back to the first.

I have a switch on my controls to change the elevator trim. Once you get the repeat rate on the trim control set properly, it works well (experiment to find the best setting for you) but I still find I'm having to look at the trim crank occasionally because we can't feel where the trim is set like on a real plane. Watch the videos Scott made and you'll see him turning the crank two full turns.

Thanks for posting that story.

Hook

[Scott - A2A]

And it took me a good 6 to 8 seconds I reckon to shake that complete sense of utter disbelief into any sort of action.

I've experience this and have given it a lot of thought since. This is natural human behavior and the way the mind works, and as a twin engine pilot something I'm acutely aware of that, if I lose an engine on takeoff, a 5 second pause could cost me (and anyone else on board) our lives.

Dudley gave me the same recommendation I came up with as one of the solutions, and that is every time you take off, expect an engine failure at the worst possible time on takeoff. Expect it to happen. And to take this further, always expect the engine to fail at any time when you are flying, especially at night or over poor terrain in a single engine airplane.

The very first thing that comes to min mind when an engine fails is fuel, so almost instinctively I switch fuel tanks in the event of an engine failure before I even think (or that 5 second brain freeze when something unexpected happens).

Scott.

[Medtner]

And it took me a good 6 to 8 seconds I reckon to shake that complete sense of utter disbelief into any sort of action.

I've experience this and have given it a lot of thought since. This is natural human behavior and the way the mind works, and as a twin engine pilot something I'm acutely aware of that, if I lose an engine on takeoff, a 5 second pause could cost me (and anyone else on board) our lives.

Dudley gave me the same recommendation I came up with as one of the solutions, and that is every time you take off, expect an engine failure at the worst possible time on takeoff. Expect it to happen. And to take this further, always expect the engine to fail at any time when you are flying, especially at night or over poor terrain in a single engine aircraft.

The very first thing that comes to min mind when an engine fails is fuel, so almost instinctively I switch fuel tanks in the event of an engine failure before I even think (or that 5 second brain freeze when something unexpected happens).

Scott.

This!

In the same line of thinking as Dudley, Paul Bertorelli says in this video about the «impossible turn» that many would suggest practicing waiting in disbelief for a number of seconds before taking action: “That’s like practicing bleeding.”

Expect the failure and be ready to make the appropriate actions, and then be happy when it doesn’t happen.

Bertorellis video on the impossible turn (whether you agree with his conclusion or not, its an interesting discussion):
https://youtu.be/byBh1Qd6IgA

[Killratio]

Congratulations on a most valuable lesson!!

I believe that statistics show that a major cause of forced landings due to engine failure is fuel exhaustion/fuel starvation. Fuel starvation being the most common of the two. MANY aircraft have ended up landing (or worse) in a field whilst perfectly good fuel fuel sloshed about in an unselected tank.

I only ever had one (partial) engine failure but I always flew as if it could happen at any time. The whole thing lasted less than 25 seconds but in that time I had traded speed for altitude (you never know when those extra 150 ft might come in handy and you can always wash them off) selected a provisional landing field, headed towards it and trimmed for best glide. The engine came back up and we headed back to base at altitude. The reactions were quick for one reason only (not that I am a brilliant pilot!) , that I was always prepared for it to happen and I practiced engine failure/forced landing drills at least once per month. I still do, in sim!.

[MarcE]

You might love the P-51

hard to master but then a pleasure to fly!

[JonP01]

And it took me a good 6 to 8 seconds I reckon to shake that complete sense of utter disbelief into any sort of action.

Expect it to happen. And to take this further, always expect the engine to fail at any time when you are flying, especially at night or over poor terrain in a single engine aircraft.

The very first thing that comes to min mind when an engine fails is fuel, so almost instinctively I switch fuel tanks in the event of an engine failure before I even think (or that 5 second brain freeze when something unexpected happens).

Scott.

Yep, fuel should have come to mind most definitely. The most embarassing thing was that once I got her back on the ground in perfect order (since damage was on), I simply flipped the fuel tank switch and I was away again! Luckily well before the national news TV cameras got there to record the episode for posterity

Seriously though, a real world pilot friend of mine said the same thing you did - that when you are in the air, expect things to happen and always continue scouting for places to put it down. The funny thing is that lesson has stuck with me all through my simming, but of course with stock FSX, you just don't get failures unless you deliberately program them. But this incident was a case where I had seen the airfield and had it in my mind that I could get there. It does not excuse the hopeless inaction regarding fuel though.

But I now reckon these add-ons are so good, they ought to become part of some additional "training module" in order to get a real licence. In the same way that in the modern era here in Australia, to get a driver's licence you now have to take some computerised testing and not just the physical driving test (not that it helps driving standards in the end, but with aviation I think it is different because the attitude of all involved is mostly many levels removed in terms of attentiveness and responsibility.

[JonP01]

You might love the P-51

hard to master but then a pleasure to fly!

Have you consulted my wallet on that one? I'm a Cherokee, Connie and FSX Steam down already!! But yes, I am sure there will be more.

[JonP01]

The reactions were quick for one reason only (not that I am a brilliant pilot!) , that I was always prepared for it to happen and I practiced engine failure/forced landing drills at least once per month. I still do, in sim!.

I sure does go to show how important sim time is to real world pilots. Had I done regular sim failures, that 6 to 8 seconds would have been more like 2 - 3. That saving of time could have made all the difference just in itself. But with regular sim failure training, the reactions (such as checking fuel gauges and selector) would have been near automatic and the altitude lost in doing just that would have been the same altitude I lost doing absolutely nothing useful at all.