Major Glitch, I can't deal with it!

[FlightPassion]

Hi Nick,

I hope the files I have attached are ok, I basically loaded a flight, tried to take off (to ensure the issue remained) it did. Saved it. So here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qmuywp2w3tmk ... UBLAa?dl=0

Many Thanks,
Oli

[lonewulf47]

Hi Nick,

I hope the files I have attached are ok, I basically loaded a flight, tried to take off (to ensure the issue remained) it did. Saved it. So here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qmuywp2w3tmk ... UBLAa?dl=0

I just did a test with the provided files. At my end the flight enrolled normally without the described glitch. I saw however the wind changing in a 20 sec rhythm. Maybe you had some real weather on when saving? After reselecting the "Clear Sky" weather theme however all was normal again.

[lonewulf47]

Hello chaps,

Since last posting I've encountered this issue again and can confirm that it does seem to be dependent on the presence of the FSUIPC module. I saved the flight when this odd phenomenon occurred and by loading this flight and then reloading it, I'm able to reproduce the issue consistently. However, if I do the same thing with the FSUIPC4.DLL disabled (i.e. moved to a new folder elsewhere) the problem does not occur.

Oskar - I've put the saved flight in question in a zip file here if you (or any other A2A testers who use FSUIPC) are interested in trying to reproduce this. However, as mentioned it only seems to occur if I load the flight two or more times.

I should add it doesn't present a serious issue for me: I just mention it in case it's helpful in reproducing/isolating the behaviour. I use FSX Acceleration by the way and just the default scenery for TNCM which is where the flight loads.

Cheers,
Nick

P.S. Be aware: if the issue is successfully reproduced by loading this flight twice, it's almost inevitable that you'll crash your Comanche so be ready to hit pause!

Nick, I installed the files and loaded the flight but couldn't reproduce the mentioned glitch. I had - like for Oli's files - FSUIPC enabled normally. Nevertheless my guess is that we should concentrate on a unholy interaction with FSUIPC.

[Nick - A2A]

I hope the files I have attached are ok, I basically loaded a flight, tried to take off (to ensure the issue remained) it did. Saved it. So here:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qmuywp2w3tmk ... UBLAa?dl=0

Hi Oli,

The files loaded fine thanks and the flight in question displays exactly the same behaviour as I described above. If I load it normally, no problem. However, if I then reset or reload your flight, the strange behaviour begins...

Nick, I installed the files and loaded the flight but couldn't reproduce the mentioned glitch. I had - like for Oli's files - FSUIPC enabled normally. Nevertheless my guess is that we should concentrate on a unholy interaction with FSUIPC.

Thanks Oskar. This is mysterious. Did you also try reloading/resetting that flight as described?

I just tried running the scenario a few more times, in each case resetting the flight so that I could reproduce the behaviour consistently. A few notes...

1. In my tests, it's never possible to replicate the behaviour unless FSUIPC is loaded. However, my FSUIPC set-up is rather basic and I just use it for a few axis, button and key press assignments (with some very simple macros as described here).
2. I don't really run any other add-on software (such as a weather engine) which is likely to be involved. (I use Ezdok, the DX10 scenery controller, REX 4 Texture Direct and some Orbx sceneries. The Majestic Q400 is the presently the only aircraft add-on I have installed along with the A2A stuff.)
3. Disconnecting all hardware entirely (in my case, it's just a joystick) has no effect: the behaviour still occurs exactly as before.
4. The best way to describe what happens is that upon reaching an airspeed of ~20 knots the aircraft suddenly lifts into the air whilst pitching-down violently.
5. As well as using engine power, I also confirmed that surface wind of 20 knots or more will produce the same effect. In other words, exceeding a certain (very low) airspeed threshold seems to cause the behaviour to begin.
6. Once the aircraft takes to the air, its behaviour feels more 'helicopterish' than anything. There's still a response to pitch inputs but everything happens at an 'impossible' low airspeed and at 'impossible' pitch angles. It feels almost as if the mass of the aircraft is not being properly read by the sim and it weighs just a few 10s of kilograms. However, responses to power inputs are also not as expected once it starts this silly 'hovering' business.
7. Er, hard to add much more as I generally crash into the ground pretty quickly when I start doing anything too adventurous with the throttle or flight controls!

It's an odd one for sure: an "unholy interaction with FSUIPC" may be about right!

Thanks,
Nick

[lonewulf47]

Jusst one more thought about a possible interference with FSUIPC: It might well be that the occurrence on my machine ceased with one of the numerous updates of FSUIPC, however I have no proof of that. Nevertheless it might be worth a try to install the latest version (if not already done...). Current version is 4.947c or d (not sure whether -d is necessary in FSX), most probably only dealing with some more details on P3D V3.

[Nick - A2A]

Oskar, my FSUIPC version is only a couple of weeks old so I don't think this is the issue. (I'm not sure I've got the most recent version as Pete Dowson churns out updates thick and fast. I will double-check I'm up to date though.) In fact, I only purchased and installed FSUIPC a month or so ago; this is when I started experiencing this issue intermittently, hence my suspicion that the FSUIPC DLL was involved.

It's really hard to pin down though. I still wonder if alt-tabbing out of the sim or using menus or other modal windows is somehow triggering it...

Thanks,
Nick

P.S. I should add it doesn't just affect the Comanche but has happened with other Accu-Sim products too.

[lonewulf47]

...P.S. I should add it doesn't just affect the Comanche but has happened with other Accu-Sim products too...

Ok, it was just another shot in the dark I never had the issue on the Comance but AFAIR correctly on the Cherokee and the C172, but only once and quite some time ago. All I did at this time was removing all saved flights, mainly the ones named "previous flight". I never presumed a connection with FSUIPC and therefore did no research in that direction. So whatever it is, it obviously seems to be a conflict somewhere with the AccuSim module.

[Nick - A2A]

Thanks Oskar, any suggestion are appreciated. It's not a major issue (for me) so far, though it's a little frustrating if I've done a preflight and so on to have the aeroplane jump in the air and start 'acting all funny' once it reaches 20 KIAS. (Fortunately, the strange behaviour never seems to manifest itself during a flight.)

I'll let you know if I find anything else which points to a credible cause. I'll also test with my FSUIPC4.ini file removed at some stage so that FSUIPC just runs in its default state without any assignments or anything.

Nick

[Nick - A2A]

Okay - I think I've managed to get to the bottom of this by systematically removing chunks of my FSUIPC.ini file. The strange behaviour seems to be triggered by the spoilers being activated through FSUIPC. My FSUIPC.ini file included the following lines in the [JoystickCalibration] bit:

Code: Select all

Spoilers=-16380,16380/24
SlopeSpoilers=7

These lines were the result of using a 'virtual spoiler axis' in the Majestic Q400 to operate the steering tiller. However, when I removed them, I could no longer reproduce the behaviour in the saved flight I was using for testing. My guess is that the spoiler command is used for some behind-the-scenes aspects of the flight model and because of this, activation through the normal means (e.g. pressing '/' or via a hardware axis) is inhibited.

Oskar (or any other FSUIPC users) - I'd be grateful if you could test this hypothesis if you get a few moments. Just assign a keypress to the FSUIPC "Spoiler Inc" command and then press the relevant button when taxiing above 20 KIAS. If I'm correct, your aeroplane should jump into the air and pitch forward violently.

Thanks,
Nick

[lonewulf47]

Nick,

That's a very impressive and interesting theory. It may be well the case that the spoiler's liftdumping effect can have such a detrimental influence on lift if wrongly used. Who knows about the secrets of FSX and AccuSim internals... I must admit that I'm not using FSUIPC to assign any keys however I will give it a try and do my best to reproduce the issue.

[Nick - A2A]

Cheers Oskar. Worth noting that you'll need to use the "Spoiler Inc" command which I think is only available via FSUIPC, not "Spoilers Toggle" which is presumably the same as the default FSX/P3D action. You also need to press and hold for a couple of seconds for the full dramatic effect. It could come in quite handy if I ever find myself in a dogfight!

Nick

[lonewulf47]

Nick,

100% success ! I assigned the "Spoiler Inc" command to a key, pressed it twice and ran up Full Throttle and - voilà, the "helicopter feeling" started immediately after ~20 KIAS !

Two things though:

1) as I'm not experienced with FSUIPC key assigning: how can I delete the aforementioned assignment? do I need to cancel a specific key assignment or can I do it within FSUIPC?
2) I never assigned any keys through FSUIPC so the assumption goes that there might be another influence, but most probably through any use of any spoiler assignment

But most important at least a clear indication of the direction where to search is given. Thank you very much Nick, for your efforts! I will of course keep the devs curent on this thread and its findings.

[Nick - A2A]

Thanks Oskar, glad it seems to have been something fairly simple to eliminate as it was cropping up more and more often when I started a flight. I'll drop the OP a line too.

1) To delete the key assignment, just return to the "Key Presses" tab and if this is the only key assignment you have, it should be displayed in the right hand pane. All you need to do is click the button that says "Delete this entry" and then "OK" to exit.

2) I don't think you need to worry about any other influences on spoiler behaviour in the sim.

All the best,
Nick

[lonewulf47]

Well, as far as it seems there is really some "unholy alliance" on that spoiler subject between FSUIPC and AccuSim. Our devs have already contacted Pete Dowson to find a solution on this effect. We will have to wait for the outcome. I'm sure they will find one... I tried all possible spoiler assignments within FSX only an couldn't find any misbehaviour in that respect. So IMHO it is definitely confirmed to be a FSUIPC/AccuSim item.

Thank you for your removal instructions. After having looked a bit closer to FSUIPC I found that removal button on the right pane. Never used it so far...

In the meantime Nick, it simply remains to me to send you a big THANK YOU ! not only in the name of us simmers but also of the A2A staff for your endless efforts to find the culprit !

[Nick - A2A]

Oskar, you're very welcome. It's my pleasure to help out round here when I can. (Okay - I like to do a bit of nit-picking too! )

Cheers,
Nick