Bonanza trim effectiveness

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n421nj
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by n421nj »

Put some weight in the rear of the plane and see if that changes things. For the Cherokee I have to put at least 85lbs in baggage in order to do a proper flare for landing.
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graaant
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by graaant »

A simple but effective solution, thanks Andrew. I put 100 lbs baggage in, and found that Elevator Trim set to 9 did the trick, whereas I needed 12+ previously.

Grant

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Lufthansa 380
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Lufthansa 380 »

Yeah that's what I figured. Usually fly my planes almost empty with just the pilot. :P

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Paughco
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Paughco »

I developed an Excel spreadsheet for computing weight and balance in the Bonanza. I updated (and de-glitched) it last night so it has a new worksheet for a Bo with tiptanks. While playing around with it I concluded that a large guy (me) and the standard female passenger, along with full tanks puts the CG too far forward. Fix that with baggage and you run the risk of CG too far aft after you’ve burned off most of your fuel. I’m gonna load the airplane so CG is right in the middle of the envelope and see how that affects trimming.

UPDATE: I've got my Bonanza set up with tip tanks. Heavy ol' me and a female navigator. Thirty gallons in each main tank and 60 pounds of baggage. We took off from Half Moon Bay Airport and flew the pattern once for a T&G, then flew down to Monterey. Takeoff CG was well within the envelope at 80.5 inches aft of datum. The airplane seemed to rotate just a bit easier. Seemed a bit less twitchy in the pitch axis. She didn't require as much trim on approach, even with gear down and full flaps. Way more manageable. The trip down to Monterey went well, we were cleared direct on Rwy 10R, so we tried the autopilot on the ILS approach. Very smooth. We only burned about seven gallons of gas, which left us with a CG of 81.0 inches aft of datum, still well within the envelope.

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graaant
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by graaant »

Good cautionary note on the CG. With normal weight solo pilot, will reduce baggage to 60lb.

Hobart Escin

Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Hobart Escin »

I've never been able to configure either the Comanche or Bonanza correctly where either the elevator was not hyper-sensitive in the flare or the strong nose down tendency (requiring at least full up trim) with approaches in the Bonanza. I've just accepted that neither aircraft are going to work correctly for me in P3D v4.5 and I've long since given up trying. I'm thinking perhaps with all the different versions of P3D currently circulating that A2A may have accidentally included the wrong code for the P3D v4.5 version in either the installer(s) or the automatic update patch(es). I say this because the aforementioned problems simply don't exist with any of the A2A WWII fighters, the Connie, or the T-6 in P3D v4.5. All of these latter aircraft work wonderfully; the problems only exist wholly with the Comanche and Bonanza. Additionally, all other add-on aircraft from other developers work perfectly as well.

With everything gradually shifting toward FS2020, I don't see this being fixed until a MSFS version is released sometime in the future.
Last edited by Hobart Escin on 19 May 2021, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.

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cristi.neagu
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by cristi.neagu »

I also find myself using a lot of nose up trim, as much as 10-12 degrees (can't remember the exact number, but it's in that ballpark). This makes touch and goes kinda difficult, because it just wants to shoot up into the sky. Would be nice to know if this is normal.

Also, as much as i am looking forwards to the Comanche, it's the Bonanza I really want in FS2020. Either way, hurry up A2A and let her fly!

Hobart Escin

Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Hobart Escin »

cristi.neagu wrote: 19 May 2021, 16:04 I also find myself using a lot of nose up trim, as much as 10-12 degrees (can't remember the exact number, but it's in that ballpark). This makes touch and goes kinda difficult, because it just wants to shoot up into the sky. Would be nice to know if this is normal.
Yes, this is exactly what I've always experienced with the Bonanza as obviously have others who've contributed to this thread. Even with full up trim on the Bonanza I have to maintain back pressure on the yoke during approaches and the elevator sensitivity is berserk with this much trim. It's just a miserable experience and very unrealistic. Others are mentioning that adding rear baggage weight and thusly moving the CG aft helps, but if something is this broken I feel this is a band-aid on something that needs major surgery. :?

Oh well. Here's to hoping it's fixed by the FS2020 release in the future.

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cristi.neagu
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by cristi.neagu »

But it's not necessarily broken. Maybe that's just how the real plane is like. We need Dudley! :D

Les Parson
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Les Parson »

You might find this useful and it's well priced:

http://pohperformance.com/Bonanza/

Hobart Escin

Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Hobart Escin »

cristi.neagu wrote: 19 May 2021, 16:43 But it's not necessarily broken. Maybe that's just how the real plane is like. We need Dudley! :D
The real Bonanza Vtail has a reputation for being one of the easiest aircraft to land. Whatever is going on with our A2A versions is unrealistic I promise. :wink:

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hobart Escin wrote: 19 May 2021, 15:16 I've never been able to configure either the Comanche or Bonanza correctly where either the elevator was not hyper-sensitive in the flare or the strong nose down tendency (requiring at least full up trim) with approaches in the Bonanza. I've just accepted that neither aircraft are going to work correctly for me in P3D v4.5 and I've long since given up trying. I'm thinking perhaps with all the different versions of P3D currently circulating that A2A may have accidentally included the wrong code for the P3D v4.5 version in either the installer(s) or the automatic update patch(es). I say this because the aforementioned problems simply don't exist with any of the A2A WWII fighters, the Connie, or the T-6 in P3D v4.5. All of these latter aircraft work wonderfully; the problems only exist wholly with the Comanche and Bonanza. Additionally, all other add-on aircraft from other developers work perfectly as well.

With everything gradually shifting toward FS2020, I don't see this being fixed until a MSFS version is released sometime in the future.
Just checked back through some of your previous posts Hobart, and I see you were mentioning difficulty with pitch sensitivity when flying the Comanche back in 2015, which is long before the Bonanza or P3Dv4 were released.

There seems to be an issue either with your controller setup, or technique, or both when it comes to pitch inputs, but neither of these planes should feel unpleasantly sensitive in pitch if they're set up correctly. If you'd like to post in the tech support forums with some up-to-date info about your controller setup, we can certainly try to help.

Thanks,
Nick
A2A Simulations Inc.

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cristi.neagu
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by cristi.neagu »

So I did a flight with just the pilot and 100lbs of cargo. Normally I have two people in the front and 50lbs of cargo. The trim on landing was much more sensible, in the green band. Seems like the Bonanza is pretty sensitive to loading, just like the manual says.

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Paughco
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Re: Bonanza trim effectiveness

Post by Paughco »

If you have an iPhone, you might consider installing this on it: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bonanza-p ... d910038344.

Next flight put your airplane right in the comfy, easy CG range. See how she works.

Seeya
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