Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

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Gladius
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Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Gladius »

I’ve been reading the forum, and I have several questions as a result.

1. People mention flying at 50 ROP. Is peak EGT simply the temperature reached once the mixture is lean enough to cause engine roughness? To reach 50 ROP, you add enough fuel back into the mix to cool this off by 50 degrees? I’ve been adding just a couple percent fuel back into the mixture to smooth out the engine, and this typically leaves me at 20-30 ROP. (Based on how I’ve defined it.)

2. What is a typical cruising altitude? The manual says that the ceiling is 17,000 ft, but I don’t see any pressurization equipment in the plane, so can you realistically fly that high?

3. Do you guys have any links to more in depth resources for this plane? Various YouTubers have mentioned that the avionics work just like the real ones, so I should read those manuals. Where can you get them though?

Thanks,
Gladius

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AKar
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by AKar »

Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 06:32 1. People mention flying at 50 ROP. Is peak EGT simply the temperature reached once the mixture is lean enough to cause engine roughness? To reach 50 ROP, you add enough fuel back into the mix to cool this off by 50 degrees? I’ve been adding just a couple percent fuel back into the mixture to smooth out the engine, and this typically leaves me at 20-30 ROP. (Based on how I’ve defined it.)
No, the peak EGT is the maximum EGT achievable by leaning, with other things constant. It occurs somewhat before simulated roughness, with EGT coming down again after passing the peak.
Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 06:32 2. What is a typical cruising altitude? The manual says that the ceiling is 17,000 ft, but I don’t see any pressurization equipment in the plane, so can you realistically fly that high?
There really is no reason to go that high usually in a naturally aspirated GA. I tend to prefer cruise altitudes from 6000 ft to 10000 ft. Lower end of that range for speed and higher for economy.
Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 06:32 3. Do you guys have any links to more in depth resources for this plane? Various YouTubers have mentioned that the avionics work just like the real ones, so I should read those manuals. Where can you get them though?
I can look up something when I've got a chance to browse my collection, but I'm certain someone's much quicker than me while having better links!

-Esa

Gladius
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Gladius »

AKar wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 06:51
Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 06:32 1. People mention flying at 50 ROP. Is peak EGT simply the temperature reached once the mixture is lean enough to cause engine roughness? To reach 50 ROP, you add enough fuel back into the mix to cool this off by 50 degrees? I’ve been adding just a couple percent fuel back into the mixture to smooth out the engine, and this typically leaves me at 20-30 ROP. (Based on how I’ve defined it.)
No, the peak EGT is the maximum EGT achievable by leaning, with other things constant. It occurs somewhat before simulated roughness, with EGT coming down again after passing the peak.
This is what’s confusing me. As I lean, the EGT keeps rising until it’s running rough. I never reach a point where it starts coming back down. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?

flapman
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by flapman »

Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 09:48This is what’s confusing me. As I lean, the EGT keeps rising until it’s running rough. I never reach a point where it starts coming back down. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?
It sounds like you're moving the mixture too fast. It takes a couple moments for the change at the carburetor control to reflect at the exhaust temperature needle in the cockpit. If you're pulling the mixture too quickly, you can encounter roughness (uneven power production between the cylinders caused by very small differences in fuel/air ratios while very lean) before the EGT needle has had the change to move past it's peak.

Gladius
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Gladius »

When I’m leaning the engine, that is definitely the case, but once I richen the mixture, I am giving it time for the temperature to adjust. Does the direction you approach max EGT matter? How many percentage points of mixture are between a rough engine and max EGT? 1-3%, 5-6%, more?

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Oracle427
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Oracle427 »

The direction does matter as you can be on the rich or lean side of peak, the pave at which you move the mixture knob doesn't need to change.

Generally just lean out at a slow and steady rate and the EGT will lag slightly behind. One you observe the drop in EGT stop and slowly and steadily enrich the mixture once again going back to peak and then into the rich side until you reach your desired cruise setting.

There's very little risk of harm to the engine if CHTs remain in a good range, airspeed is good and the power (MAP and RPM) is not set excessively high.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

flapman
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by flapman »

Gladius wrote: 10 Feb 2021, 13:25Does the direction you approach max EGT matter?
As Oracle says, you should be safe at cruise power settings, but ideally you want to approach peak from the "rich" side. If you encounter roughness during leaning, you already know you are lean of peak. Richen the mixture, not to peak EGT, but to get on the rich side of peak again, then slowly lean again using EGT. It's hard to tell you exactly what percentage of the knob you should be moving. You could have pulled it back a lot and be very deep into rough operation, or you could be just a couple of screws of the knob. I don't know reading your posts. Just get it back on the rich side then try again.

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Oracle427
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Oracle427 »

You don't need to get to the rich side to determine the peak.

You can be on the lean side and gradually enrichen until you got peak and then keep enriching past peak to the desired point. The peak will be at the same point provided no changes to power settings.

Now the little voice in the back of my head keeps scratching that mixture is also part of power setting, but for the purposes of this exercise, the other two knobs are set and left alone prior to leaning and for the duration of cruise.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

Gladius
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Gladius »

OK, it sounds like I need to do some more rigorous testing. Thanks for the replies guys. I’ll post my results once I get them!

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Paughco
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Paughco »

Might as well watch this while you're at it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3bATVXMHQg.

Seeya
ATB
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Gladius
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Gladius »

OK, so I've found my problem. As I stated before, after finding the point at which the engine was running rough, I'd add a few percent fuel back into the mixture. I'd actually add about 3-4%, which was all it took to get to max EGT, so that's why I never saw a "hump". For my testing, I was cruising at 8000 ft, Full throttle (22" MAP), 2500 rpm, and generic P3D clear skies. Engine roughness began at 37% fuel.

37% - 1421°F
38% - 1433°F (10 LOP, the most fuel efficient you can get with a smoothly running engine)
41% - 1443°F (Max EGT)
47% - 1421°F (20 ROP)
51% - 1407°F (Max speed reached, 155 KIAS)
55% - 1394°F (50 ROP)

Thanks for your responses!

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Snoober
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Snoober »

For high altitudes, someone made an oxygen addon to simulate carrying oxygen with you. See the last page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=124&t=53317&hilit=oxynator&start=45

I believe it works with the Bonanza.
FSX Aircraft:
  • Cessna 182 Skylane
  • Piper Comanche 250
  • Beechcraft Bonanza V-tail
  • Curtiss P-40 Warhawk
  • North American P-51 Mustang
  • North American P-51 Civilian Mustang
  • Piper J-3 Cub

RipplesPlane
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by RipplesPlane »

i just purchased the Bonanza from Sim Shack and all I got was the Bonanza P3Dv4 and v5 Academy folders. How do i use this in FSx Steam??

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by Nick - A2A »

RipplesPlane wrote: 21 Mar 2021, 19:57 i just purchased the Bonanza from Sim Shack and all I got was the Bonanza P3Dv4 and v5 Academy folders. How do i use this in FSx Steam??
Hello and welcome,

It sounds like you may have accidentally purchased the Prepar3D Academic package from SimShack instead of the FSX version. If so, I recommend you contact them and ask if they can exchange your purchase for the FSX version.

Thanks,
Nick
A2A Simulations Inc.

RipplesPlane
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Re: Questions from a new Bonanza pilot

Post by RipplesPlane »

Nick, you are a genious I went back to the site on SimShack and I totaly did not see the version selections. There is a place where we need to check the version. I was so excited and just added it to my bag and poof the money was gone. Well I sent the support team a request for an exchange or even a reduced price since it was my error.. We will see in a day or 2 what they decide.
Thank you for your help..

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