I need help selecting a joystick

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MkIX
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I need help selecting a joystick

Post by MkIX »

Hi:

I'm new to the world of high end computers and flight simulation. I've recently bought an i5 based desktop with a Gigabyte Z68 motherboard, an AMD Sapphire Radeon HD7850 video card, a copy of MS FSX c/w the Accelerator package, and now I am looking forward to ordering a copy of A2A's Spitfire Sim. Until now I've been learning how to tame FSX using the keyboard as a controller...this practice is not recommended for the long term.

So now its time to invest in a joystick that works well with A2A as opposed to blasting space creatures. My problem is I'm not sure which one to get. I've spent a fair amount of time reading through various threads on this website (thank you to all who share learnings and expertise) and it seems that the high end systems use CH while many others have chosen the Saitek X52 Pro. The Saitek looks a little complex but based on what I've seen here it does the job and it has a dedicated throttle. The CH looks very robust, it specs out nicely, but if I add a separate throttle it is considerably more expensive.

I'd appreciate any guidance and opinions from seasoned A2A pilots. I can get the X52 Pro for about $160, the CH Fighterstick would cost me about $140 for the joystick alone (no separate throttle).


Mike
Last edited by MkIX on 26 Sep 2012, 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

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seaniam81
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Re: Am about to buy a joystick

Post by seaniam81 »

X52 pro is the way to go.

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Bruce Hamilton
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by Bruce Hamilton »

MkIX wrote:The CH looks very robust, it specs out nicely, but if I add a separate throttle it is considerably more expensive.
The Fighterstick comes with a throttle wheel, like most decent sticks. You'll probably want a yoke/throttle/pedals setup in the future, but no need to buy them now.

MTFDarkEagle
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by MTFDarkEagle »

X52 pro is a very good place to start! I used a X52 (non-pro) for years. A squadmate of mine has been using an X52pro for years as well.
But, if you are in the market to spend some more (I don't expect you do given this is your first joystick), look no further than the Thrustmaster Warthog.
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killer757
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by killer757 »

What I use is the Saitek Yoke system with quadrant, also using the Saitek combat flight peddles. let me say that that is the best purchase I have made for a FSX system.

But, if you are looking for something cheap and small, I used the Logitech Extreme 3D pro. It is only $30 and includes a throttle section, and a twist rudder system. That is what I first started out with and it worked very well with no problems. This was the only joystick that I ever used so I have little input on other more expensive joysticks.

Hope you can find one soon!
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CharlieP51
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by CharlieP51 »

killer757 wrote:What I use is the Saitek Yoke system with quadrant, also using the Saitek combat flight peddles. let me say that that is the best purchase I have made for a FSX system.

But, if you are looking for something cheap and small, I used the Logitech Extreme 3D pro. It is only $30 and includes a throttle section, and a twist rudder system. That is what I first started out with and it worked very well with no problems. This was the only joystick that I ever used so I have little input on other more expensive joysticks.

Hope you can find one soon!
This guy stole my thunder. I like that Logitech stick (I've owned 2) and whichever stick you do settle on make sure it has a twist - handle for rudder/nosewheel control particularly handy while taxiing. One thing I really like on the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is how it stays put on the desk..it's not lightweight and has good design with angled rubberized 'feet' that really grip well. A wireless version is available as well. The wired ones have a nice long USB cable about 10 ft I'd say. Happy SKIES to ALL..time to warm-up my Accu-Sim P-51. Let that subwoofer rumble... :mrgreen:
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MkIX
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by MkIX »

Wow! Thanks to all for the info and advice. It sounds like the Saitek works better than some rather dated reviews would lead you to believe.

The issue of controlling the rudder prior to buying a set of rudder pedals is indeed on my mind. Without rudder I'm finding that my FSX planes skid all over the sky when putting in any sort of roll control, and its worse at lower power settings. I've been correcting yaw somewhat by using the keyboard but that is quite a crude solution to the problem. Twisting the stick would be a viable solution, but so would assigning a hat switch on the throttle to control the rudder. I have no evidence that this can be done so at this time I've taken a giant leap in logic.

Mike

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CAPFlyer
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by CAPFlyer »

Another option for entry-level is the Thrustmaster T.16000M. Inexpensive, uses Hall Effect sensors (no wearing out of the pots) and I've been very happy with mine since my old Saitek X45 wore out about 6 months ago (after 5+ years).

I pair that with a CH Throttle Quadrant and CH Pro Pedals for my basic setup. I have a CH Yoke, but I can't use it with my current desk due to limited space. Would be nice to get it back in service at some point, but I figure I'll probably upgrade to a newer Yoke like the Saitek or the CH Eclipse when I get in a situation where I can fit it.
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Roadburner426
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by Roadburner426 »

For me twisting the stick just seemed so awkward. I flew for years with my Saitek X52 Pro using the auto rudder. About a year and a half ago though I got the Saitek rudder pedals and have not looks back. I cannot recommend the X52 Pro enough as it was a very good control system for me. My only flaw with it is that after awhile you may start having issues with wires chaffing in the throttle causing the mouse cursor to wander. For the longest time it bugged me, and finally one day I opened it up and taped the wires down a certain way. Then I upgraded to the Saitek X-65F which if you are looking to spend a lot of money on one is the one I recommend. The X-65F also has the dual throttles which I use whenever I fly the B-17 as I can gang the engines together. Makes taxiing a breeze.
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jtwillia
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by jtwillia »

CAPFlyer wrote:Another option for entry-level is the Thrustmaster T.16000M. Inexpensive, uses Hall Effect sensors (no wearing out of the pots) and I've been very happy with mine since my old Saitek X45 wore out about 6 months ago (after 5+ years).

+1 on this recommendation. I replaced my failed FFB2 with the T.16000. It works well and have had no problems with it.
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MkIX
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by MkIX »

I just found this review/comparison. It seems rather comprehensive. Once again it seems to point toward the X52 Pro and the CH Fighterstick/Throttle as the products that would meet my requirements....except for the need for proper pedals to control the rudder. I will turn my attention toward the rudder later.

Mike

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/12946- ... mparisons/

trucker17
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by trucker17 »

I have two differant sticks that i have used....My newest one took some getting used to....
These sticks are the Logitech extreme3D pro....A good first stickwith many functions.....the new one is the Thrust master, with removable throttle......
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Sundowner
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by Sundowner »

I'm used to giving advice to new sim pilots for hardware used in combat sims, there you go X52, or Thrustmaster Warthog. Now here, with not much controls needed under fingertips, those two are not that obvious choices anymore.

So, what I think you need is: Thrustmaster T16000M joystick, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, Saitek Throttle Quadrant, And Track IR 4, or 5. I think this is what you should aim for, here's why:

With A2A aircrafts we deal mostly with warbirds and GA prop-driven aircrafts, so you need at least 8 analog inputs:

- Stick Y axis
- Stick X axis
- Rudder
- Left rudder brake pedal
- Right rudder brake pedal
- Throttle
- Prop speed
- Mixture

Now most joysticks have rudder axis, and throttle - that's enough for most modern aircraft-themed games. And it's a good start. But, you will soon find out, you need more precise control of the rudder, and differential braking (especially in the P-51). Therefore apart of a good stick, a good 3-axis rudder pedals are your next on priority list. And then comes Prop control, and mixture - with HOTAS systems available, like the Warthog, X52, X65, etc. - you usually get enough analog axes to assign those, but they are usually not evenly precise, and precision you need to dial down the right power setting ;) That's where the Saitek Throttle quadrant comes in with 3 levers, that you can assign by your liking, as they are all the same (plus you can mount more sets if you fly multi-engined aircraft).

The Track IR will probably change the way you look at sims, it's a must have. You can try freeware alternatives that use webcams, but honestly, they don't work as good. Today I think about all the previous years I spend on improving my Freetrack profiles, as time wasted - the Track IR 5 work flawlessly, more precise, smoother and faster - best $$$ spend on sim hardware ever ;)

Now a note on the "force feedback" sticks... AVOID. What everyone seems to forget is, that feedback comes at a price of precision - when typical stick have around 1024 point accuracy per axis or more (Thrustmaster Warthog, 16000M), the force feedback sticks usually have only 128 points, some even less (think the Saitek Evo Force had 256 though). It's fun, you can feel the controls, but you notice, that for some reason flying in formation is a big challenge ;)
Chris Oleksy
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Bob
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by Bob »

+1 to what Chris said.

I'm just working out the upgrade path from my rather poor Saitek AV8R-03 joystick. I can only do a bit at a time for financial reasons (and not helped by the fact I live in China - so if I can't get it on taobao I have to try and bring it back with me when I visit civilisation). This is what I've decided on:
  • Ordered today: TrackIR5 and Saitek throttle quadrant
    In a couple of months: Saitek Rudder Pedals (want the combat ones, but can't find in China and very heavy to bring back from UK)
    Xmas in the UK: Saitek Trim wheel
    At some point in the future: New stick and/or yoke
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MkIX
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Re: I need help selecting a joystick

Post by MkIX »

Thanks again for the great information and advice; I was completely unaware that a product like the TRACKIR 5 existed. It looks like it would be a lot of fun.

I've been spending a fair amount of time browsing the web comparing prices and checking on availability. The good new is that most of the products mentioned here can be found in Canada. I guess I just need to bite the bullet and buy something. Flying from the keyboard is rather frustrating.

Mike

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