Surviving T-6's and P-51's

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NeverMiss51
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Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by NeverMiss51 »

Just from browsing around the internet, ever since the T-6 came out, I have noticed something. It seems there are alot more T-6's out there still flying than the Mustangs. I get that the T-6 was a trainer, and not a war machine. Logically, it would make sense to keep them flying as long as possible to train as many pilots as possible.

Does anyone know the numbers? How many T-6's are still out and flying?

I did notice that there was one for sale for only 150K 8)
The "YellowJackets", P-51's of the 361st Fighter Group, 8th Air Force

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Piper_EEWL
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Piper_EEWL »

I have no idea how many T-6's are still flying but I'm sure Martin aka "T6flyer" has a number for us.

I guess there's more T-6's out there than Mustnags because as you correctly stated it was a s trainer and not a front line fighter and I guess nowadays it is a lot less expensive to operate than the mighty P-51?!
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by T6flyer »

Piper_EEWL wrote:I have no idea how many T-6's are still flying but I'm sure Martin aka "T6flyer" has a number for us.

I guess there's more T-6's out there than Mustnags because as you correctly stated it was a s trainer and not a front line fighter and I guess nowadays it is a lot less expensive to operate than the mighty P-51?!
Thought my name would come up sometime! :) Will try and find out for you all. Would think off the top of head would be about over 1000 still flying. The Mustang started off as a frontline type and then reverted to other duties whilst the T-6 did the opposite and in the postwar years flew in many theatres of war. Will look through AMCAR to start with.

Martin

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Piper_EEWL
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Awesome Martin.

Thanks in advance
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pjc747
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by pjc747 »

There were 15,495 of the T-6 family produced, and approximately 15,586 P-51 Mustangs + 500 A-36 Apaches built. So there's an equal number that were constructed. According to FAA airworthiness records (for the United States naturally), there are 411 T-6s + 302 SNJs + 24 Harvards registered as of today, and there are 157 P-51 Mustangs + 2 A-36 Apaches registered.

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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Thanks for those numbers. It's amazing how many of those planes were build and how little are still around today.

So that means that there are 737 US registered T-6's around? Or does that mean 737 in the United States?
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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JoeS475
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by JoeS475 »

As warbirds go, at least in my mind, T-6's and P-51's are really common. So many other types there are only one or 2 flying (think B-24, B-29, SBD, SB2C, Mosquito, Lancaster, etc etc etc...)

That's why its so great to have both the Texan and the Mustang simulated... They are classic warbirds that are beautiful and loud and fun to be around, but they are still common enough that you will see them at almost every airshow!

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Bomber_12th
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Bomber_12th »

The most numerous WWII trainer flying in the world today is the North American AT-6/SNJ/Harvard (600+).
The most numerous WWII fighter flying in the world today is the North American P-51 Mustang (hovers right around/near 170).
The most numerous WWII bomber flying in the world today is the North American B-25 Mitchell (38)

(Numbers compiled by me)

Also, you can't depend on the FAA register to give you numbers on how many are flying in the US (or other country's registries either), since a large number of the Texans registered, like other warbirds, aren't flying or are under restoration at this time - just because an aircraft is registered, doesn't mean that it is currently airworthy or active.


The big reason for this, is because all three were still highly regarded at the end of WWII and kept in USAF inventory, in large numbers (all three types also with the RCAF and a few other air forces at this time), well into the 1950's, and then served with other nation's air forces for still more decades beyond that.


There are also tons (hundreds) of Stearmans, Chipmunks, and DC-3's/C-47's still flying today (those are the others that compare closest in numbers). Compared with the Mustang's numbers, with 170 still flying around the world, there are only about 60 Spitfires, about 37 P-40's, about 25 Corsairs, about 12 Hurricanes , 11 P-47's, and 7 P-38's, all flying today around the world (but with a multitude of more examples of every type under restoration right now to join those ranks). Compared to the T-6, with over 600 still flying today around the world, there are only about 50 BT-13's/BT-15's flying in the world. Compared to the B-25's numbers, with 38 flying in the world today, the TBM Avenger is close to it at about 33 or 34 examples flying around the world, about 18 or so A-26's flying, 10 B-17's, 2 B-24's, 2 Mosquitoes (a number soon to double and tripple over the next few years), 1 A-20 Havoc, and no B-26's at all.
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by pjc747 »

Bomber_12th wrote:The most numerous WWII trainer flying in the world today is the North American AT-6/SNJ/Harvard (600+).
The most numerous WWII fighter flying in the world today is the North American P-51 Mustang (hovers right around/near 170).
The most numerous WWII bomber flying in the world today is the North American B-25 Mitchell (38)

(Numbers compiled by me)

Also, you can't depend on the FAA register to give you numbers on how many are flying in the US (or other country's registries either), since a large number of the Texans registered, like other warbirds, aren't flying or are under restoration at this time - just because an aircraft is registered, doesn't mean that it is currently airworthy or active.


The big reason for this, is because all three were still highly regarded at the end of WWII and kept in USAF inventory, in large numbers (all three types also with the RCAF and a few other air forces at this time), well into the 1950's, and then served with other nation's air forces for still more decades beyond that.


There are also tons (hundreds) of Stearmans, Chipmunks, and DC-3's/C-47's still flying today (those are the others that compare closest in numbers). Compared with the Mustang's numbers, with 170 still flying around the world, there are only about 60 Spitfires, about 37 P-40's, about 25 Corsairs, about 12 Hurricanes , 11 P-47's, and 7 P-38's, all flying today around the world (but with a multitude of more examples of every type under restoration right now to join those ranks). Compared to the T-6, with over 600 still flying today around the world, there are only about 50 BT-13's/BT-15's flying in the world. Compared to the B-25's numbers, with 38 flying in the world today, the TBM Avenger is close to it at about 33 or 34 examples flying around the world, about 18 or so A-26's flying, 10 B-17's, 2 B-24's, 2 Mosquitoes (a number soon to double and tripple over the next few years), 1 A-20 Havoc, and no B-26's at all.
Since the FAA changed registration rules to require re-registration with a fee, it is a fairly accurate measure now, as few aircraft with active airworthiness certificates remain in the rolls

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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Bomber_12th »

I know the warbirds based locally to me represent a sort of microcosm of the current flying warbird numbers. In Minnesota, the St. Paul/Minneapolis area in particular, but also branching out to Granite Falls (in western Minnesota), I know of 16 different T-6's/SNJ's/Harvard types that are regular flyers (with another SNJ under restoration/near to fly), just in that one region alone. In that same area of coverage, there are 3 P-51's that are regular flyers (with a few more under restoration to fly), as well as 3 B-25's, 2 P-40's (with another under restoration to fly), 2 BT-13's (and a BT-15 under restoration to fly), and an untold number of Stearmans (I can easily think of 6 local examples right away), which are all regular flyers.
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Bomber_12th »

pjc747 wrote:Since the FAA changed registration rules to require re-registration with a fee, it is a fairly accurate measure now, as few aircraft with active airworthiness certificates remain in the rolls
Sure, it cleaned it up a bit, but there are still many warbirds registered with the FAA that exist only as projects/paperwork, restorations, or parked/static planes. I'm not going to get into the T-6's (far too many, and too hard to keep track of - I know of just one restoration company in particular with 26 different unrestored T-6/SNJ airframes/main sections, with many of them registered), but when it comes to the Mustangs registered with the FAA right now, all of these listed below (59) can be found registered with the FAA but are not currently airworthy aircraft, existing only as parts/paperwork, restorations, or static displays (many of these to be flyers in the future, down the road):

N51NA, N8082U, N51Z, N90358, N51KW, N309PV, N426QA, N6555B, N151LP, N858F, N51TK, N551LR, N151GP, N51CK, N514L, N951HB, N395WR, N151DM, N7711C, N5074K, N151MD, N4151D, N90338, N151KM, N51RT, N4451C, N1451D, N38227, N74920, N6306T, N50191, N5410V, N3451D, N96JM, N51TF, N514NH, N5416V, N9857P, N51T, N451K, N119VF, N357FG, N89DN, N60752, N67149, N366NE, N45455, N345BN, N866F, N3024T, N551WR, N926EW, N721WR, N390WR, N6325T, N51DK, N74978, N5019F, N3139T

Now imagine this likely at least tripled or quadrupled for the number of Texans registered with the FAA (there are a ton of back of the garage/hangar Texan projects out there which the owners have registered).

There are right around 170 Mustangs flying in the world today (A-36, P-51A, P-51B/C, P-51D, P-51K, P-51H, Cavalier and Commonwealth examples) - close to 140 flying in the US, and about 30 flying outside of the US.


With regard to surviving Texans, here is a registry of many of those known to still exist in some form or another (from just parts/paperwork all the way up to airworthy aircraft). Despite the large number of examples listed, it doesn't cover all of them (at least a couple of the 5 restored/flying Texans I've made repaints of so-far don't show up in this registry): http://www.warbirdregistry.org/texanreg ... istry.html
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by Rarebear »

Anyone know when the At6 SNJ and Harvard were retired as trainers?

JDW

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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by MarcE »

Rarebear wrote:Anyone know when the At6 SNJ and Harvard were retired as trainers?

JDW
depends on the country I guess...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ame ... #Operators

T6flyer
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Re: Surviving T-6's and P-51's

Post by T6flyer »

The RAF at Boscombe Down still use a Harvard IIB (KF183) for trials work. Been in continuous service since 1944.

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Martin

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