Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

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Paughco
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Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post Paughco »

You guys are blowing me away. I've only managed one really nice loop in my P-51. Usually I stall at the top and then get to practice my spin recovery technique. Last "really nice" loop I did was during a descent from cruise altitude to field approach level; had a lot of energy so (why not?) pulled back on the stick just right, and with little trails off of each wing, she went right over the top and back down again. Think I got a bounceless landing on that same flight. Hammerheads? Craziness. Keep on rockin' in a free world!

Is the A2A Mustang COOL or what?

Seeya
ATB
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pjc747
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Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post pjc747 »

Given the P-51 doesn't have a symmetrical airfoil like your typical aerobatic plane, it is not surprising that your nose attitude is not vertical. The zero-lift axis of a non-symmetrical wing does not correspond to the appearance of perfect vertical attitude of the fuselage, etc.
Paughco wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 22:58
Usually I stall at the top and then get to practice my spin recovery technique.
Are you causing an accelerated stall? You have to pull with sufficient G to get it to enter a somewhat ballistic trajectory up before you lose all your energy, let it float slightly over the top before pulling it back down. Properly executed you should exit on altitude.
martinB wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 10:07
After many unsuccessful attempts to fly the Hammerhead, I have now found a way that has led to success.
I did not fly the upward part exactly vertically, but tilted very slightly forward. Then I reduced the speed to 100 MPH at 1500 RPM and then full rudder left. During the turning then full right aileron with slightly stick forward. This is really important, as otherwise the Hammerhead ends to a quarter of a roll while going downwards. Then early enough rudder right to avoid overshooting. You can see the result here: https://youtu.be/vEbkPqv6ESI. Thank you for the wide range of assistance :D .
You will lose more altitude by pulling the power on the vertical line and then establishing the vertical down with idle power. And the amount of energy you retain during the yaw segment indicates how much faster you are when you kick than rudder than you should be. There is a reason why the European term for this figure is the 'stall turn'. If you read the judging criteria for a hammerhead, the 'stall turn' at the top should not exceed a wingspan distance from vertical up to vertical down.

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MkIV Hvd
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Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post MkIV Hvd »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 22:51
I never attempted doing a Hammerhead in any of my display routines in a Mustang. It's just not a "normal" P51 maneuver.......
Dudley Henriques
Dudley,

I had a routine I used back in the late 70s for the Harvard that worked very well and I'm working on resurrecting that for the Civ Mustang as well just for fun. I used a couple of stall turns, but without those it seems like a good Mustang routine to me. It's actually a bit easier with the extra power of the Mustang to answer some of the really critical energy management concerns that apply to the Harvard version :wink:

So with that in mind, I'm just curious as to what maneuvers you would use for a Mustang airshow routine?
Paughco wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 22:58
Is the A2A Mustang COOL or what?
Truer words have never been spoken!
Last edited by MkIV Hvd on 10 Sep 2019, 15:34, edited 1 time in total.
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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DHenriquesA2A
A2A Chief Pilot
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Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post DHenriquesA2A »

MkIV Hvd wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 15:31
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 22:51
I never attempted doing a Hammerhead in any of my display routines in a Mustang. It's just not a "normal" P51 maneuver.......
Dudley Henriques
Dudley,

I had a routine I used back in the late 70s for the Harvard that worked very well and I'm working on resurrecting that for the Civ Mustang as well just for fun. I used a couple of stall turns, but without those it seems like a good Mustang routine to me. It's actually a bit easier with the extra power of the Mustang to answer some of the really critical energy management concerns that apply to the Harvard version :wink:

So with that in mind, I'm just curious as to what maneuvers you would use for a Mustang airshow routine?
Paughco wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 22:58
Is the A2A Mustang COOL or what?
Truer words have never been spoken!
A good Mustang routine can be flown and should be flown within a +4 and -1 g profile using a minimum 3000 foot AGL vertical top energy gate . All maneuvers are flown using power and airspeed to control energy. Turns at each end of the display line can either be 1/2 Cubans or Duster Turns. All rolls are flown on a parabolic curve that places the wings exactly nose high above the horizon line ay -1g the same amount as the nose will be on recovery below the horizon line.
Settings; 40 and 25 average 40 and 27 verticals.
Energy; Verticals 300 at +4 3K top gate mins 160 through the top gate.

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MkIV Hvd
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Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post MkIV Hvd »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 16:37
A good Mustang routine can be flown and should be flown within a +4 and -1 g profile using a minimum 3000 foot AGL vertical top energy gate . All maneuvers are flown using power and airspeed to control energy. Turns at each end of the display line can either be 1/2 Cubans or Duster Turns. All rolls are flown on a parabolic curve that places the wings exactly nose high above the horizon line ay -1g the same amount as the nose will be on recovery below the horizon line.
Settings; 40 and 25 average 40 and 27 verticals.
Energy; Verticals 300 at +4 3K top gate mins 160 through the top gate.
Thank you very much Sir!

The small amount of practice I've flown while getting comfortable in the Mustang suggests that your energy speed numbers are in knots?
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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DHenriquesA2A
A2A Chief Pilot
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Location: East Coast United States

Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post DHenriquesA2A »

MkIV Hvd wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 16:58
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 16:37
A good Mustang routine can be flown and should be flown within a +4 and -1 g profile using a minimum 3000 foot AGL vertical top energy gate . All maneuvers are flown using power and airspeed to control energy. Turns at each end of the display line can either be 1/2 Cubans or Duster Turns. All rolls are flown on a parabolic curve that places the wings exactly nose high above the horizon line ay -1g the same amount as the nose will be on recovery below the horizon line.
Settings; 40 and 25 average 40 and 27 verticals.
Energy; Verticals 300 at +4 3K top gate mins 160 through the top gate.
Thank you very much Sir!

The small amount of practice I've flown while getting comfortable in the Mustang suggests that your energy speed numbers are in knots?
MPH

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MkIV Hvd
Technical Sergeant
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Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Location: CYYC

Re: Aerobatics with the P-51 Mustang

Post MkIV Hvd »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 17:25
MPH
Excellent, thanks again!
BTW I like "Duster Turn"...I've never described it as such, but that's exactly what it is!
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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