Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

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Paughco
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Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post Paughco »

Guys: Check this link on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_tKShlf_gU. We are students of aviation, right?

Seeya
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post DHenriquesA2A »

Paughco wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 23:15
Guys: Check this link on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_tKShlf_gU. We are students of aviation, right?

Seeya
ATB
This is all very good stuff. I would add that it is unfortunate when ANY of this has to come as remedial education during a biannual check ride. Everything in this film should be part and parcel of any CFI's kit bag. You will find instructors who teach this way and teach this material as routine before the Private flight test are instructors who teach BEYOND the flight test requirements. Many instructors don't teach this way and teach to "pass the test".
Find GOOD instructors and you will get this type of training during your student curriculum period and not as part of a Biannual Review.
I will add better to get this during the Biannual than not at all, but find good CFI's. They are out there.
Dudley Henriques

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Medtner
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post Medtner »

What a fantastic video! I learned lots in a manner of minutes.

Such a strange thing to see - that the airline pilots and GA pilots have completely different answers to basic questions. It reveals that there really is a difference between being a pro and a recreational pilot, much though there shouldn't be.
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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scottb613
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

So it’s 1.404 x Vsi for any aircraft ?

Regards,
Scott
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AKar
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post AKar »

scottb613 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 09:43
So it’s 1.404 x Vsi for any aircraft ?
Well, the math he used would apply generally. (30° bank in level turn results in approximately 1.155 g, and as the lift coefficient required is proportional to velocity squared, you'd take the square root of that, which would result in 'bout 1.075, or the ~8 % increase he mentioned. As he used the 1.3 times the stall speed as a starting point, add eight percent to that, the result is that 1.404 he's talking about.)

I'd simply round it to 1.4 - that even I could remember! ;)

Whether that 1.4 makes sense for any aircraft, I don't know. Probably for most "regular" airplanes.

-Esa

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scottb613
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post scottb613 »

Thanks Esa…

So - to continue this exercise - my Vs1 is 63 KIAS * 1.404 - comes out to approx. 88.5 KIAS...

I do the normal Flaps 1 abeam the numbers - Flaps 2 on base - Flaps 3 on final...

As I fly now - I'm sure I'm normally at 75 KIAS turning base to final...

As per this video - I should attempt to maintain that 88.5 all the way until established on final - right ? I can certainly give that a shot - see how it works for me... 88.5 KIAS with two notches of flaps will probably equate to a pretty steep deck angle... Normal approach - full flaps - on final is 68 KIAS..

My POH actually specifies stall speed by bank angle and flap state (fully up or down)…

Level
63 KIAS Flaps Up
51 KIAS Flaps Down 35

30 Degree Bank
67 KIAS Flaps Up
55 KIAS Flaps Down 35

45 Degree Bank
74 KIAS Flaps Up
61 KIAS Flaps Down 35

60 Degree Bank
88 KIAS Flaps Up
72 KIAS Flaps Down 35

Regards,
Scott
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CAPFlyer
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post CAPFlyer »

The MMA as Dan is espousing is for no-flaps. Once you put flaps out, that changes your VS1 and thus your MMA for that configuration. The point is, that once you get below that MMA, you'd better have flaps in or you'd better be doing something to get back above that speed. If you noticed in the video what happened when they pulled the flaps early on that first go-around and were below MMA. Had he been turning and pullled the flaps, it definitely could have put them in an accelerated stall. That's what unfortunately happens.
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post DHenriquesA2A »

scottb613 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 09:43
Hi Folks,

So it’s 1.404 x Vsi for any aircraft ?

Regards,
Scott
Basically what he's doing is establishing an arbitrary speed as a mid-range target airspeed that should cover you as far as accelerated stall is concerned. As stall speed increases with bank the purpose is to give you a target speed that will handle a loaded medium bank without stalling the aircraft. The math just helps establish what that airspeed should be.
The rest of it is just reflex conditioning so that lowering the nose after an engine failure becomes automatic, sort of like turning you into one of Pavlov's dogs.
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Medtner
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post Medtner »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 17:02
scottb613 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 09:43
Hi Folks,

So it’s 1.404 x Vsi for any aircraft ?

Regards,
Scott
The rest of it is just reflex conditioning so that lowering the nose after an engine failure becomes automatic, sort of like turning you into one of Pavlov's dogs.
Dudley Henriques
I got a picture in my head now: Pilots salivating when having an engine failure. It can’t be unseen. :-P
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

Stearmandriver
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post Stearmandriver »

I've seen this posted elsewhere on GA groups, and I have mixed feelings on it.

On the one hand, there's no doubt that GA in general needs more awareness in the low energy / high AoA regime, so any techniques towards that end could be good.

On the other hand though, the root cause of many stall/spin accidents is rote focus on airspeed numbers, and less understanding or awareness of actual wing performance. Airspeed and wing performance correlate, but airspeed is not a direct indication of performance. For that, we'd need an AoA indicator, and the fact that new airplanes have them and good affordable aftermarket add ons are hitting the market is fantastic. If you have an AoA indicator, airspeed numbers become irrelevant.

Otherwise, yeah airspeed is the only visual indicator of performance, but is total focus on it the right way to go? Knowing a maneuver speed that protects you to 1.3g is great... but what happens when a thermal thumps you to 1.35g? I'd argue for more emphasis on "total package" awareness of what the wing is actually doing; more accelerated stall/spin training and maybe even some light acro. There's a balance, of course, between not wanting to scare away potential pilots... but I don't know, such reliance on an arbitrary airspeed number isn't the total "answer" to me, the way it's billed in the video.

And in an airline jet, maneuvering speed is both a minimum and a maximum; there's two, at high altitude. ;)

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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post DHenriquesA2A »

Stearmandriver wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 18:41
I've seen this posted elsewhere on GA groups, and I have mixed feelings on it.

On the one hand, there's no doubt that GA in general needs more awareness in the low energy / high AoA regime, so any techniques towards that end could be good.

On the other hand though, the root cause of many stall/spin accidents is rote focus on airspeed numbers, and less understanding or awareness of actual wing performance. Airspeed and wing performance correlate, but airspeed is not a direct indication of performance. For that, we'd need an AoA indicator, and the fact that new airplanes have them and good affordable aftermarket add ons are hitting the market is fantastic. If you have an AoA indicator, airspeed numbers become irrelevant.

Otherwise, yeah airspeed is the only visual indicator of performance, but is total focus on it the right way to go? Knowing a maneuver speed that protects you to 1.3g is great... but what happens when a thermal thumps you to 1.35g? I'd argue for more emphasis on "total package" awareness of what the wing is actually doing; more accelerated stall/spin training and maybe even some light acro. There's a balance, of course, between not wanting to scare away potential pilots... but I don't know, such reliance on an arbitrary airspeed number isn't the total "answer" to me, the way it's billed in the video.

And in an airline jet, maneuvering speed is both a minimum and a maximum; there's two, at high altitude. ;)
Excellent post! I've enclosed a link to an article I did recently on just these issues.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8ZDK ... HF0SklVa28

Dudley Henriques

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TBryson2
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post TBryson2 »

My problem with this is, when I do the math, then apply a “minimum sticker” on my A2A airspeed indicator (on monitor) it doesn’t stay with the airspeed indicator when I’m looking around. :mrgreen:

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bobsk8
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post bobsk8 »

I never liked climbing out at maximum angle of climb, which many instructors recommended. My feeling was, if the engine crapped out, the first thing your mind goes into is "denial". By the time you get your ducks in a row, you are in a stall. I always climbed at max rate which gave me a bit more time to react to the fact that the prop stopped. This instructor has it right. Power out, push stick forward immediately.
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post DHenriquesA2A »

bobsk8 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 20:00
I never liked climbing out at maximum angle of climb, which many instructors recommended. My feeling was, if the engine crapped out, the first thing your mind goes into is "denial". By the time you get your ducks in a row, you are in a stall. I always climbed at max rate which gave me a bit more time to react to the fact that the prop stopped. This instructor has it right. Power out, push stick forward immediately.
Most GOOD instructors will teach best RATE as opposed to best ANGLE. Best angle is there when needed but not to be used normally.
Decreasing pitch immediately on power failure should be taught before solo, not as remedial education. The fact that there are instructors out there who have to deal with basic stuff like this during a biannual is truly unfortunate. Glad they are doing it if needed.......but unfortunate none-the-less.

Dudley Henriques

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MkIV Hvd
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Re: Flightchops learns some important stuff during his biannual flight review

Post MkIV Hvd »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 18:53

Excellent post! I've enclosed a link to an article I did recently on just these issues.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8ZDK ... HF0SklVa28

Dudley Henriques
Thanks very much for posting the link, Dudley!
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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