A2A Aerostar flights

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Scott - A2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Scott - A2A »

Posted a new video with Jake and I getting re-acclimated to the aircraft. Rather than make a new global post I just added this one to the original post.



Scott
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Medtner
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Medtner »

Scott - A2A wrote:
28 Nov 2020, 19:23
Posted a new video with Jake and I getting re-acclimated to the aircraft. Rather than make a new global post I just added this one to the original post.



Scott
Thanks a Googolplex for this video!

The first video was an 11/10, and this one is even further out range.

There is so much to love here:

1. The discussion on priming, and how engine personality / temperature affects the needed priming
2. The difference in fuel pressure (or at least the gauges showing different readings) when the fuel boost is on
3. The loving nudge before take off, "finally flying together".
4. The discussion on syncing the engines with the alternator (musical ear needed, and how I love this - and how much i look forward to finding the right pitch by ear, and then confirming it with the gauges (or not, the gauges are not always correct or synced)
5. The fuel pressure coming DOWN on #1 (!!!) when you set take off power. Why is this happening, Scott?
6. Jake syncing the engines during the take off roll. How interesting to see how much difference there is on the levers once synced! Hope this will find its way into Accusim!
7. "7. Boost pump off" - this resulted in ever so slightly higher fuel pressure. So many interesting quirks to understand and learn about in this machine!
8. The ceiling windows
9. 181 MPH landing gear limit. Damn!
10. The monstrous towers on the hill next to Robertson
11. "Alright, gotta redeem myself here." Hahaha! Fantastic!
12. Jake doing the after landing checklist - I like how he held his finger on the boost pump for a second or two after turning it off. I've learned from Dudley Henriques (if I remember correctly) to hold my hand on the landing gear lever until I can confirm it to be in the correct position before taking the hand away. Tactility is a part of the puzzle.
12. The demonstration of panel lights for Robert Rogalski.
13. I would have liked to have seen which engine cut out and stopped first if both mixtures were closed at the same time. I'd guess it wouldn't be the exact same.

Again, thanks, Scott (and Cpt. Jake!). This was a fantastic video!
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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Scott - A2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Scott - A2A »

1. The discussion on priming, and how engine personality / temperature affects the needed priming
Already supported in Accu-Sim :)
2. The difference in fuel pressure (or at least the gauges showing different readings) when the fuel boost is on
This is a huge part of multi engine piloting being able to interpret different readings. This makes multi engine flying more tiresome.
3. The loving nudge before take off, "finally flying together".
Big moment yes. He's an awesome pilot.
4. The discussion on syncing the engines with the alternator (musical ear needed, and how I love this - and how much i look forward to finding the right pitch by ear, and then confirming it with the gauges (or not, the gauges are not always correct or synced)
As a musician, I've been waiting for this too :)
5. The fuel pressure coming DOWN on #1 (!!!) when you set take off power. Why is this happening, Scott?
Supply and demand. These physics are also already present in Accu-Sim
6. Jake syncing the engines during the take off roll. How interesting to see how much difference there is on the levers once synced! Hope this will find its way into Accusim!
Well, this is currently being done because our left engine prop governor needs to be calibrated. We were hoping this would go unnoticed, but little gets by you :)
7. "7. Boost pump off" - this resulted in ever so slightly higher fuel pressure. So many interesting quirks to understand and learn about in this machine!
Yes, the Aerostar is both active and quirky which is, IMO, Accu-Sim paradise.
8. The ceiling windows
Designer Ted Smith's brilliance.
9. 181 MPH landing gear limit. Damn!
This is a jet with props
10. The monstrous towers on the hill next to Robertson
Yes, we stay well clear of these
11. "Alright, gotta redeem myself here." Hahaha! Fantastic!
Definitely need to shoot a load of landings before I'm feeling cocky again :)
12. Jake doing the after landing checklist - I like how he held his finger on the boost pump for a second or two after turning it off. I've learned from Dudley Henriques (if I remember correctly) to hold my hand on the landing gear lever until I can confirm it to be in the correct position before taking the hand away. Tactility is a part of the puzzle.
Jake is amazing
12. The demonstration of panel lights for Robert Rogalski.
We do very long and in depth videos for our modelers and I thought this is just a little example of that.
13. I would have liked to have seen which engine cut out and stopped first if both mixtures were closed at the same time. I'd guess it wouldn't be the exact same.
Yes probably very close

Thanks Metner for your posts.
A2A Simulations Inc.

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Medtner
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Medtner »

Scott - A2A wrote:
28 Nov 2020, 20:10
1. The discussion on priming, and how engine personality / temperature affects the needed priming
Already supported in Accu-Sim :)
2. The difference in fuel pressure (or at least the gauges showing different readings) when the fuel boost is on
This is a huge part of multi engine piloting being able to interpret different readings. This makes multi engine flying more tiresome.
3. The loving nudge before take off, "finally flying together".
Big moment yes. He's an awesome pilot.
4. The discussion on syncing the engines with the alternator (musical ear needed, and how I love this - and how much i look forward to finding the right pitch by ear, and then confirming it with the gauges (or not, the gauges are not always correct or synced)
As a musician, I've been waiting for this too :)
5. The fuel pressure coming DOWN on #1 (!!!) when you set take off power. Why is this happening, Scott?
Supply and demand. These physics are also already present in Accu-Sim
6. Jake syncing the engines during the take off roll. How interesting to see how much difference there is on the levers once synced! Hope this will find its way into Accusim!
Well, this is currently being done because our left engine prop governor needs to be calibrated. We were hoping this would go unnoticed, but little gets by you :)
7. "7. Boost pump off" - this resulted in ever so slightly higher fuel pressure. So many interesting quirks to understand and learn about in this machine!
Yes, the Aerostar is both active and quirky which is, IMO, Accu-Sim paradise.
8. The ceiling windows
Designer Ted Smith's brilliance.
9. 181 MPH landing gear limit. Damn!
This is a jet with props
10. The monstrous towers on the hill next to Robertson
Yes, we stay well clear of these
11. "Alright, gotta redeem myself here." Hahaha! Fantastic!
Definitely need to shoot a load of landings before I'm feeling cocky again :)
12. Jake doing the after landing checklist - I like how he held his finger on the boost pump for a second or two after turning it off. I've learned from Dudley Henriques (if I remember correctly) to hold my hand on the landing gear lever until I can confirm it to be in the correct position before taking the hand away. Tactility is a part of the puzzle.
Jake is amazing
12. The demonstration of panel lights for Robert Rogalski.
13. I would have liked to have seen which engine cut out and stopped first if both mixtures were closed at the same time. I'd guess it wouldn't be the exact same.
Yes probably very close

Thanks Metner for your posts.
I'm a detail-fanatic.

Curious too: If Jake didn't monitor the left engine and thus held it back, would it then go past redline?
(and is this something that can happen in Accusim?)
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post DHenriquesA2A »

Looking good guys. You two fly well together.(Who would have thought :-)
These videos are VERY well done. The camera mount on the top center is perfect for most cockpit interaction and instrument notation.

D

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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Dogsbody55 »

Thanks for another great video. The performance of that plane is amazing. Two Thousand FPM climb??? Can you Accusim my ears popping at that?? :lol: :lol:

One of the things I've always liked about the Aerostar is the visibility out of it. It's far better than most other twins and you have a great view 180 degrees from left to right, and those ceiling windows really help in the turns too.

Can't wait. I bought MSFS last night and will be spending the next few days tweaking the settings. Or maybe longer... :lol: Looking forward to the release of this amazing plane.


Cheers,
Mike
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post DHenriquesA2A »

Medtner wrote:
28 Nov 2020, 20:15


I'm a detail-fanatic.

Curious too: If Jake didn't monitor the left engine and thus held it back, would it then go past redline?
(and is this something that can happen in Accusim?)
No. You never sync engines by throttle position........only by the tachs, a synchrometer, or by sound. Personally I like sound. I use the tachs to get them close then fine tune them by listening. When the throbbing in my ears goes to a steady tone I've got them fine tuned.
If you have a very good ear you can actually tune props better by ear than by using the synchrometers. Scott can do wonders with sound. I'll be suggesting to him that we include the capability to sync the Aerostar's propellers by ear and include that in Accusim. (That is if he hasn't already thought of doing that which I'd be willing to bet he has :-)



DH

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AKar
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post AKar »

Medtner wrote:
28 Nov 2020, 20:15
Curious too: If Jake didn't monitor the left engine and thus held it back, would it then go past redline?
(and is this something that can happen in Accusim?)
It is not a "normal condition" that the engine would have to be held back manually during the takeoff. It is an indicative of the governor not... governing properly, something that would show up in the maintenance hangar, I presume. :)

This is often the case with aircraft fresh out of engine maintenance / overhaul / change, as the high-rpm setting often cannot be adjusted reliably on ground, but needs to be tweaked based on flight tests.

Generally speaking, engines are adjusted at two operating conditions: idle and full power. At idle, the throttles are full back, RPMs and mixtures full forward (all against the stops). What's adjusted are the idle RPM via idle throttle stop setting, and idle mixture. At full power, all the levers are against the forward stops. The mixture is again adjusted when static, but the engines may not reach the full rated RPM without some forward movement, so this needs to be tweaked per flight test results. So - in takeoff and full power climb, one would not normally see a "lever split" when all the adjustments are done, as all the levers are against the stops and the power plants adjusted accordingly. At any other setting, the engine controls typically have some differences in between them, resulting in split levers when adjusting for precisely symmetric settings.

-Esa

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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Mickel »

AKar wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 03:33
At any other setting, the engine controls typically have some differences in between them, resulting in split levers when adjusting for precisely symmetric settings.

-Esa
I'm hoping there is going to be a check box for those with only one throttle lever so that the two engines behave as one, as opposed to the lucky souls who have the ability to control the six levers individually (bring on the Bravo...).
Cub, Cherokee, Comanche, Civvie 'stang, P-40, B-377 COTS, Spitfire, Connie, T-6, C-172, C-182, D-III, Anson, F4U

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Scott - A2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Scott - A2A »

The Aerostar has an interesting characteristic owners refer to as the "Aerostar Shutter." Vibrations move throughout the cabin, literally. You can see it travel across the airframe, through seats, past the sun visors, etc. We will be doing vibration analysis in the coming weeks.
Mickel wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 06:27
I'm hoping there is going to be a check box for those with only one throttle lever so that the two engines behave as one, as opposed to the lucky souls who have the ability to control the six levers individually (bring on the Bravo...).
No worries, we will never force features dependent on hardware. We always believe in giving the customer options.

AKar wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 03:33
This is often the case with aircraft fresh out of engine maintenance / overhaul / change, as the high-rpm setting often cannot be adjusted reliably on ground, but needs to be tweaked based on flight tests.
We're so lucky to have such knowledgable posts from the likes of you and Dudley. This is exactly what we're doing now. At full power static, they reach about the same RPM. But on the very first takeoff the left engine started sneaking ahead so we need to make an adjustment on the ground, fly, adjust, fly, etc. until it's just right.
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 00:49
No. You never sync engines by throttle position........only by the tachs, a synchrometer, or by sound. Personally I like sound. I use the tachs to get them close then fine tune them by listening. When the throbbing in my ears goes to a steady tone I've got them fine tuned.
I'll soon be capturing the sounds of these engines, each of them with the goal to give the exact same feel in the sim. Exact. I already know this is possible based on what I'm feeling. hearing and what Accu-Sim can do.

Scott
A2A Simulations Inc.

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guillaume78150
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post guillaume78150 »

Brilliant! I can't wait...
Side question, as a one engine virtual pilot and Fighter Stick user (good advice from Dudley), what twin engine controller would you recommend ?

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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post MkIV Hvd »

Ha!!!

That's waaaaayyyyyy too much fun, Scott and a very proud moment I'm sure!!! :D
You and Jake are going to have a blast learning the airplane together and evolving your cockpit resource management procedures as a crew, along the way!! The next step will be swapping seats as co-captains...I am completely envious... :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Rob
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AKar
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post AKar »

Scott - A2A wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 07:39
At full power static, they reach about the same RPM. But on the very first takeoff the left engine started sneaking ahead so we need to make an adjustment on the ground, fly, adjust, fly, etc. until it's just right.
I don't know much at all about the type, but with that significant overspeed in governing judged by the lever positions, what you could consider is first setting the governor RPM grossly under if there is enough range, so that it starts governing to some given RPM when running static. For instance, 2450 (as the static RPM should be 2500 or above due to full-fine prop alone). From there, it would take roughly five turns to be at the ballpark of 2575 RPM, according to the book which may or may not be correct stating about 25 RPM per turn. This could get it into approximate setting without having to flight test it too much to check whether it still overspeeds.

-Esa

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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Mickel »

guillaume78150 wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 08:52
Brilliant! I can't wait...
Side question, as a one engine virtual pilot and Fighter Stick user (good advice from Dudley), what twin engine controller would you recommend ?
The Bravo is coming. If their yoke is anything to go by, it should be decent. It can be set up in a variety of configurations, depending on what you want.
Cub, Cherokee, Comanche, Civvie 'stang, P-40, B-377 COTS, Spitfire, Connie, T-6, C-172, C-182, D-III, Anson, F4U

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Scott - A2A
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Re: A2A Aerostar flights

Post Scott - A2A »

AKar wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 13:05
Scott - A2A wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 07:39
At full power static, they reach about the same RPM. But on the very first takeoff the left engine started sneaking ahead so we need to make an adjustment on the ground, fly, adjust, fly, etc. until it's just right.
I don't know much at all about the type, but with that significant overspeed in governing judged by the lever positions, what you could consider is first setting the governor RPM grossly under if there is enough range, so that it starts governing to some given RPM when running static. For instance, 2450 (as the static RPM should be 2500 or above due to full-fine prop alone). From there, it would take roughly five turns to be at the ballpark of 2575 RPM, according to the book which may or may not be correct stating about 25 RPM per turn. This could get it into approximate setting without having to flight test it too much to check whether it still overspeeds.

-Esa
We flew again today and synced the engines at 2575rpm, so now all we need to do is adjust the prop control to match this. The next takeoff it should be spot on.

Scott
A2A Simulations Inc.

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