Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

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Ron Attwood
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Ron Attwood »

I've just spent a couple of hours in the Cub and I'm sorry to say the panel IS unreadable from the back seat. My previous goes in it were pretty perfunctuary so the dials didn't make an impression on me. Mip maps on and off in P3D made no difference. Shame, other than that it's very nice.
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Hook
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Hook »

Is this what your Cub looks like in VR?

https://imgur.com/ICKoZlh (Note this is from the Clock thread)

Make sure you view the full size screen shot to get higher resolution.

If you're looking straight ahead, is your magneto switch in the same spot in your view as in that pic?

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curtis72561
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by curtis72561 »

I was trying to figure out what everyone was talking about because mine looks good. I'm guessing it's in VR only?

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bladerunner900
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by bladerunner900 »

As someone who does not have VR remind me, what resolution are those head sets?

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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Dogsbody55 »

Thanks, A2A, for all the hard work here. This bird is unique and great fun to fly. With the exception of possible mipmap issues, I don't see what the complaints here are all about. I'm downloading the latest version of P3D as I'm still on V4.3 and I'm planning to install it on an SSD, and will be buying then.

Can't wait, :D
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robains
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by robains »

Nick - A2A wrote: 12 Jan 2020, 06:54 When you say "VC textures are very low res and poor quality" it's worth pointing out that they do include mipmaps, so please check that your global texture resolution is set to "Ultra 4096x4096". The gauges themselves should show in rather high resolution as the pics in the manual show.
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the response.

Yes, all set to 4096 ...
MAX_VC_TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=4096
MIPMAP_VC_PANELS=1
TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=4096

I understand the desire to not do a ground up re-work, but on the 3D modeling and UV mapping side, probably not a huge difference in 3DSMax for P3D vs. MFS ... but with no SDK from MFS yet it's obviously impossible to predict.

Is it possible you can check with the modeler to verify the correct textures are there?

I'm not using VR in this situation so it's not a VR issue. I am running 4K res with 4XSSAA, FXAA OFF and your other aircraft looked great, enjoyed them all visually, just isolated to the cub.

Cheers, Rob.
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Nick - A2A
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Nick - A2A »

Rob,

Could you post some screenshots to try and give us a better idea of the issues you're reporting?

The Cub is pretty unusual in that it's flown from the rear seat, so the pilot's eyes are a lot further from the instrument panel than for other types. This means that the gauges will be rendered at a smaller size on the screen (or indeed in a VR headset) than for other GA types with 3-1/8" gauges.

For non-VR users, a wide angle viewpoint and/or a smaller screen size will obviously compound this issue. However, I use a fairly small screen by modern standards (24" 1920x1200) and have no trouble reading the primary gauges, providing Heidi's head isn't in the way.

One thing you could try (and this also applies to VR users who are struggling to read the gauges) is moving the eyepoint forward a little in the VC. It may not be quite as realistic, but should help to make the gauges appear a little bigger. As mentioned, we'll also look into making a non-mipmapped set of textures available for those who can run high SSAA settings to avoid the shimmering these tend to create.

Thanks,
Nick
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robains
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by robains »

Hi Nick,

I think I discovered "part" of the issue, it seems Dynamic Reflections don't work well with this aircraft ... creates a haze which doesn't help the gauge quality nor external quality. Made a quick video with DR On/Off so you can easily see the difference:

https://youtu.be/vCyQmaK3HOE

Here is a quick flight I made around Heron's next with DR OFF:

https://youtu.be/OW2xITvgLfw

Aircraft does look better with DR OFF.

Cheers, Rob.
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello Rob,

you might wanna check your system as that is certainly not normal and might be why no one else has reported that particular weird issue. On a clean P3Dv4 install here. updated to latest public release it works with and without the setting on and all the levels too. That glow and weird shine you are getting looks like a shader issue or maybe a grpahic driver issue but certainly i'd be looking more at shaders.

Its worth noting at this point, that i've noticed some shader mods that 'make backups' don't seem to actually do and this and when removed still keep there shader mods in place. Maybe try remaking your shaders for P3D?

Actually second thoughts on your video. Try a default scenery, Ive a feeling the white you are seeing is the white of the winter the game sees (not sure if the game sees the hangar) so in that case it might just be that the reflection is a white snow reflection.

thanks,
Lewis
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Nick - A2A
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Rob,

Thanks for posting the vids.

Yes, I think Lewis is right about the environmental reflections of the snowy landscape. The Cub is parked in a dark hangar, but by setting dynamic reflections to 'low', the only thing that'll be reflected is the terrain, and not any buildings or simobjects, so the aircraft is bound to look a little weird if parked in a dark building in a bright, snowy landscape.

To be honest, with the Cub parked in an artificially dark space like that, I think it may look a little odd even with DR set to 'high'. The lighting in P3D just isn't sophisticated enough to deal with situations like this.

For what it's worth, I can read the gauges in your vids, even when viewing them on a 13" laptop screen.

Cheers,
Nick
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by wothan »

I'm sorry to say, but I find that Rob's graphics looks overall weird - kind of lifeless.
Could just be the video capture though

Maybe deleting the shader cache would help !
At least it don´t hurt.

Delete the "Shaders" folder:
•Local Disk (C:) ► Users ► You ► AppData ► Local ► Lockheed Martin ► Prepar3D v4 ► Shaders
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robains
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by robains »

Perhaps the Cub doesn't like this combination with PTA and REX SF on a cold overcast morning in Maine ... odd that the Cherokee and Commanche and Bonanza don't seem to suffer this fate in the same scenario regardless of DR setting.

But agree with you on DR implementation by LM ... not the best, but that's changing.

EDIT: Curtis image seems to suffer the same "haze" like problem on the textures, but he thinks that looks good/normal ... I'll try to get some screenshots/video up later today with your other aircraft to show you the difference.

Cheers, Rob.
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curtis72561
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by curtis72561 »

I did some testing with Dynamic Reflections off and on ultra. From the outside I did notice some difference in the tires and the asphalt. Tires did have a slight haze with it on at ultra and better with it off. As for the cockpit I don't see a lot of difference. Maybe colors are a little lighter with it on, slightly. I usually run with it off or very low so I haven't noticed until now..



Off
Image

On Ultra
Image

Off
Image

On Ultra
Image

Off
Image

On Ultra
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curtis72561
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by curtis72561 »

Update:

I run plain Jane P3D with no Shaders or Scenery add-on.
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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Lewis - A2A »

robains wrote: 14 Jan 2020, 12:31 Perhaps the Cub doesn't like this combination with PTA and REX SF on a cold overcast morning in Maine ... odd that the Cherokee and Commanche and Bonanza don't seem to suffer this fate in the same scenario regardless of DR setting.
Taking the implementation out of the equation for a moment which itself has its own issues we had to work around,

Yes the none PBR models will react differently, esp once you start adding things like PTA into the equation. PTA etc etc can utterly change the look of the sim, and unfortunately as things move forward this will become more and more apparent as its a lot easier to get mixed results with the PBR workflows. For example the gold details on the C172 some users reported resulting in the sim reflecting the orange of the new PTA settings and what not over the default blueish in the base sim.

Once you get into this area its now easy to understand why our friends over at Laminar with the XP11 full PBR platform had to come out, and make an official statement stating they will not support the use of shader mods and the such like as it can result in such things happening in the 3d world and prevents some other changes/developments down the road. Its definitive a rock and hard place scenario.

Ultimately it could be reasonably argued that shader mods are not all that compatible with a dynamic PBR Platform and could be a thing of the past and slowly go the way of the 2D cockpit. Only time will tell how the scenario plays out.

thanks,
Lewis
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