Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

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robains
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by robains »

I understand your position Lewis, but my REX EF + PTA didn't seem to have any negative visuals on your Bonanza ... no haze and VC still very crisp and clear with DR ON (see quick video below).

https://youtu.be/_JsyjNZLtzs

There is some quality loss in the video compression at 4K res on YouTube. Anyway, don't want to belabor the point, just giving my feedback, time for me to accept and move on.

Cheers, Rob.
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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hey Rob, as mentioned in my last post, the Bonanza is not PBR.

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robains
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by robains »

Hi Lewis,

Yes I understand ... but the issue isn't one of PBR.

I did some more testing and this seems to be DR (Dynamic Reflections) and Weather visibility settings and overcast/clouds/sky textures. With DR = Ultra on a nice sunny day, no issues, everything looks great. But add some clouds and DR picks up the weather and reflects it on the material (as it should but some materials seem to not work as well). The Cub seems to be more susceptible to this vs. other aircraft (PBR or non-PBR) ... for example the Milviz B350 where it's not as noticeable regardless of DR or weather.

Didn't mean to drag this on, my apologies.

Cheers, Rob.
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by MarcE »

Hook wrote: 12 Jan 2020, 18:27 Is this what your Cub looks like in VR?

https://imgur.com/ICKoZlh (Note this is from the Clock thread)

Make sure you view the full size screen shot to get higher resolution.

If you're looking straight ahead, is your magneto switch in the same spot in your view as in that pic?

Hook
Yes, exactly like yours.

https://imgur.com/a/Dtx9ZvR

Hook
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Hook »

MarcE wrote: 15 Jan 2020, 18:30
Hook wrote: 12 Jan 2020, 18:27 Is this what your Cub looks like in VR?
Yes, exactly like yours.
Not like mine, that's someone else's.

You know, if you zoom out more the gauges will be even less readable? Does the sim allow you to zoom out far enough to see both wingtips at the same time? Is this how you have it set?

This is totally weird. I thought the whole idea behind VR was that you could make your in-game view look like real life. Unless you've got some insane amount of FOV, wrapping around the sides of your head to your ears, you'll be getting way too much fisheye effect because you're zoomed out too far.

My zoom level is 0.8 on a 24" monitor. The gauges on my screen look life size, and the outside world is pretty impressive. I have no fisheye effect and head tracking software (which I assume VR has) allows me to look around naturally. Actually, I was using that zoom level before I got head tracking software. The Cub's gauges are in the front seat so they look smaller. In other aircraft the gauges are closer so they look bigger and would be easier to read. But the 2" gauges on my monitor are perfectly readable.

Now, I realize I'm the only person in the entire world who uses 0.8 zoom level. If you don't want to go that far, then zoom in as far as you are comfortable with and see if that doesn't help the readability of the gauges.

Heidi's head looks too big at 0.8, but that's appropriate: her head is closer to you than your monitor. Of course if your monitor is closer than mine is to me, a lower zoom is better... 0.7?

I dare you to try 0.8 zoom or similar on just ONE FLIGHT, just to see what it's like. Make it a short flight. Look at how much different the runway looks on approach. Yeah, if you're used to using a fisheye lens it won't look right at first. If VR zoom levels aren't comparable, then use whatever higher zoom works. The 0.8 zoom is appropriate for a monitor.

Actually, it was that runway size difference that got me to start experimenting with a high level zoom. I was surprised at how big the runway looked on approach in a real world Cessna 172 compared to the sim.

Hook

PS. You probably won't try it. No one ever does.

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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Hook »

I just measured where the magneto switch is.

To look directly at the magneto switch, I have to turn my head 55 degrees left and look up 60 degrees. This is outside my real life peripheral vision. Can you even measure these angles with VR?

I'm not saying that using a high level of zoom is the One Right Way or the only way. The "right way" is the way that works best for you. But keep in mind that I'm not the one having problems reading the gauges. :D

Hook

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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by MarcE »

Hook wrote: 15 Jan 2020, 21:09
MarcE wrote: 15 Jan 2020, 18:30
Hook wrote: 12 Jan 2020, 18:27 Is this what your Cub looks like in VR?
Yes, exactly like yours.
Not like mine, that's someone else's.

You know, if you zoom out more the gauges will be even less readable? Does the sim allow you to zoom out far enough to see both wingtips at the same time? Is this how you have it set?

This is totally weird. I thought the whole idea behind VR was that you could make your in-game view look like real life. Unless you've got some insane amount of FOV, wrapping around the sides of your head to your ears, you'll be getting way too much fisheye effect because you're zoomed out too far.

My zoom level is 0.8 on a 24" monitor. The gauges on my screen look life size, and the outside world is pretty impressive. I have no fisheye effect and head tracking software (which I assume VR has) allows me to look around naturally. Actually, I was using that zoom level before I got head tracking software. The Cub's gauges are in the front seat so they look smaller. In other aircraft the gauges are closer so they look bigger and would be easier to read. But the 2" gauges on my monitor are perfectly readable.

Now, I realize I'm the only person in the entire world who uses 0.8 zoom level. If you don't want to go that far, then zoom in as far as you are comfortable with and see if that doesn't help the readability of the gauges.

Heidi's head looks too big at 0.8, but that's appropriate: her head is closer to you than your monitor. Of course if your monitor is closer than mine is to me, a lower zoom is better... 0.7?

I dare you to try 0.8 zoom or similar on just ONE FLIGHT, just to see what it's like. Make it a short flight. Look at how much different the runway looks on approach. Yeah, if you're used to using a fisheye lens it won't look right at first. If VR zoom levels aren't comparable, then use whatever higher zoom works. The 0.8 zoom is appropriate for a monitor.

Actually, it was that runway size difference that got me to start experimenting with a high level zoom. I was surprised at how big the runway looked on approach in a real world Cessna 172 compared to the sim.

Hook

PS. You probably won't try it. No one ever does.
Hook,

In normal 2D I use zoom 1.0 or 0.9 and TrackIR. This is VR!! It is automatically set to 0.3 inside the VR system and simply cannot be changed as you would loose the natural room effect VR offers. If you zoom in in VR you get a fisheye effect that makes you sick. Natural movement is ONLY possible in this default set zoom level and in almost every aircraft the measurement is totally correct. And in aircraft like the Bonanza or Cessna you sit closer to the gauges, no problem. However in the Cub you sit in the back. Ir you sit in the pax seats in the Bo you won‘t ve able to read the gauges too. That‘s the problem. Not that anyone is too stupid to zoom in. The screenshots are taken from the 2D screen which looks totally different from what you see in the VR glasses. The VR system corrects the zoom level to a real 3D vision. 0.3 in 2D is equal to 1.0 in 3D.

Hook
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Hook »

It's not that people are too stupid to zoom in. There are people who use the 0.3 zoom on a normal monitor. Obviously they don't care much about reading gauges. :)

If the 0.3 gives the proper perspective in VR, then that's what you use. For me, 0.8 gives the proper perspective with TrackIR. The "fisheye" effect is like a fisheye lens for a camera: it produces distortion at the edges. I can imagine you'd be getting some effects from zooming in where the image moved too fast for your head speed (which would cause nausea), but that's not fisheye.

I'd be glad to check out a demo of VR, but for me it would involve a 90 minute or more drive each way, finding someone to do said driving, and use of a wheelchair at the destination as I'm limited in how far I can walk.

I understand the Reverb has much better resolution. That might help.

I wouldn't complain about getting 4096 textures for the cockpit if that would help the VR people. But the problem you are having now is why I decided not to pursue VR a decade ago.

Hook

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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by MarcE »

Hook wrote: 16 Jan 2020, 09:39 It's not that people are too stupid to zoom in. There are people who use the 0.3 zoom on a normal monitor. Obviously they don't care much about reading gauges. :)

If the 0.3 gives the proper perspective in VR, then that's what you use. For me, 0.8 gives the proper perspective with TrackIR. The "fisheye" effect is like a fisheye lens for a camera: it produces distortion at the edges. I can imagine you'd be getting some effects from zooming in where the image moved too fast for your head speed (which would cause nausea), but that's not fisheye.

I'd be glad to check out a demo of VR, but for me it would involve a 90 minute or more drive each way, finding someone to do said driving, and use of a wheelchair at the destination as I'm limited in how far I can walk.

I understand the Reverb has much better resolution. That might help.

I wouldn't complain about getting 4096 textures for the cockpit if that would help the VR people. But the problem you are having now is why I decided not to pursue VR a decade ago.

Hook
Yep, the Oculus rift has a rather low resolution which causes the worse readability the more you move away from the panel and the cup is this aircraft you sit in the back. Flying the Spitfire, Mustang or T6 it‘s simply amazing. It‘s no show stopper in the Cub, I don‘t need those gauges anyway. But it‘s a bit of an immersion killer but obviously nothing A2A can do about, it‘s the rift. Maybe 4096 gauges would help, I don‘t know.
However I think VR quality will rise a lot within the next couple of years and I‘ll probably get a newer headset at some point. But the rift was too expensive two years ago to simply get another one right now. :)

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by Nick - A2A »

Guys,

The gauges in the J-3 are actually drawn in higher resolution than in any of the other Accu-Sim aircraft except the Bonanza. That it, the gauge elements are mapped to a 2048 × 2048 texture sheet, but because the Cub with its comparatively simple cockpit has fewer items mapped on this texture, the gauges are actually drawn using more pixels than in the other planes.

Drawing them at higher resolution still won't make any difference if they're being rendered on a comparative low-res VR headset where they're some distance from the viewer's eyepoint.

For what it's worth, here's how they look when viewed from close up.

Image

Thanks,
Nick
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Re: Disappointed with the Cub for P3DV4

Post by MarcE »

The Cub is incredibly beautiful and it flies amazing. It‘s such a simple aircraft but Accusim and Heidi make it so much fun to fly. Last night I jumped into the yellow paint and just did some circuits in orbx’ 3W5 (Concrete Mun). I have a lot of nice airports but lacking slow aircraft or a good helicopter simulation in P3D I normally just flew from or into them. Now with the Cub I just leave the door open and circle around the airports in VR. Outstanding!

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