Navigation

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Artur
Staff Sergeant
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Joined: 12 Jun 2015, 08:37

Navigation

Post by Artur »

Hi,

Have question how those brave guys during IIWW were navigating using only compass ?
How to fly that thing when u are over unfamiliar terrain where practically u have no visual reference ?
I fly using Navigraph moving map, but have no clue how to reach destination without it, but guys during II WW did - how ?

BR
Art

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blockwood
Airman
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Joined: 18 Feb 2013, 15:29

Re: Navigation

Post by blockwood »

dead reckoning: the process of calculating one's position by estimating the direction and distance traveled rather than by using landmarks, astronomical observations, or electronic navigation methods.

pilotage: pilot looks out the window to find landmarks, such as cities, towers, rivers, lakes and mountains, and compares this with the printed sectional chart he has on hand. Even at night, pilotage can be accomplished easily by finding city lights, highways and airports.

You have to plan your flights carefully. What is the course to my destination? How far is it? What is my airspeed? How long will it take? What land marks are available?

It's not magic. As we used to say in the Air Force, "Prior preparation and planning prevents piss poor performance.", or words to that effect.

Artur
Staff Sergeant
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Re: Navigation

Post by Artur »

Thanks for the answer.
Are u able to give example of such calculation for learning purpose ?

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blockwood
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Re: Navigation

Post by blockwood »

If you know the mag course to your destination, that comes from your flight plan, that is the compass heading you would fly with no wind. With wind, you would need to know what your drift angle is. The pilots back then would have little idea what the wind was other than forecast winds. If it is 40 miles to your destination and you're flying 240 mph (4 miles a minute), it will take you 10 minutes to get there. Once you get there, it's off to your next waypoint, just repeating the process.

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TatoBean
Airman First Class
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Joined: 27 Feb 2020, 15:16

Re: Navigation

Post by TatoBean »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6AU5DfG8A0

I know it's from those jokers at Riddle (GO SIOUX!) But here's the basics on Pilotage (you see the thing? Good! Pilot there) and Dead Reckoning (You reckon correctly, or you are.)
Let the potato rest for 5 minutes.

Artur
Staff Sergeant
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Joined: 12 Jun 2015, 08:37

Re: Navigation

Post by Artur »

It is easy when u do a relatively short trip on well known terrain or with significant landmarks.
Problem is that i like to make longer trips ( 400 - 500nm ) on beautiful but unknown terrain without landmarks ( northern Finland / Norway ) - then things become tricky...

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MkIV Hvd
A2A Mechanic
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Location: CYYC

Re: Navigation

Post by MkIV Hvd »

Artur wrote: 06 May 2020, 13:33 It is easy when u do a relatively short trip on well known terrain or with significant landmarks.
Problem is that i like to make longer trips ( 400 - 500nm ) on beautiful but unknown terrain without landmarks ( northern Finland / Norway ) - then things become tricky...
Well if it was easy, everyone would be able to do it...and there are always landmarks... :wink:
Rob Wilkinson
A2A: Civilian Mustang, T-6, Bonanza, Comanche, Cub, C182, Spitfire, P-40, Cherokee, P-51 - VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

Hook
Master Sergeant
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Joined: 31 Dec 2012, 01:38
Location: Bonham, Texas

Re: Navigation

Post by Hook »

MkIV Hvd wrote: 06 May 2020, 14:34...and there are always landmarks... :wink:
We could only wish! :D I've flown over terrain that had numerous terrain features but none I could use for navigation. The "Land of 1000 Lakes" area has so many lakes that you can't recognize any specific one. Stephen Coonts mentions this in his book "Cannibal Queen". I've had problems in several areas, the last one being the coast of Greenland. I can only imagine flying the coast of Norway.

In those situations it's just like flying over water: compass and clock.

Hook

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seaniam81
Technical Sergeant
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Navigation

Post by seaniam81 »

Forgot one of the most important. IFR. I follow Roads. :lol:

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Paughco
Senior Master Sergeant
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Joined: 30 Nov 2014, 12:27

Re: Navigation

Post by Paughco »

That's what makes it so interesting. The P-40B is like a Piper Cub on steroids. You fly it like a Cub, but you're moving a whole lot faster. More systems to manage, but still not too bad. Plan ahead. Figure out where you want to go, and get some visual waypoints figured out for your route. Write 'em down, along with bearings, distance, and such on a piece of paper (your kneeboard). F**kin' go for it. Purity of essence.

Seeya
ATB
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GaryRR
Staff Sergeant
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Joined: 26 Dec 2020, 22:32
Location: KSEG Selinsgrove, PA

Re: Navigation

Post by GaryRR »

Pilotage is easy here in my home state, Pennsylvania. I could find any of our major airports looking out the canopy. PHL, MDT, PIT, ERI, ABE, they are easy to find. The ridge and valley terrain makes it easy. But I even flew to the NYC area that way. I know the general heading from my home field. I follow that until I see skyscrapers.

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DHenriques_
A2A Chief Pilot
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Location: East Coast United States

Re: Navigation

Post by DHenriques_ »

The navigation in Europe was a piece of cake compared to the mental gymnastics needed by Naval Aviators far out at sea on long range flights to enemy targets and back home again. A LOT of math involved over water.
In Europe they used a lot of pilotage and dead reckoning coupled with some basic beacon navigation.
Many fighter pilots had basic nav data written on the back of their throttle hand.Bombers of course carried navigators.
At night it was a lot of very basic radio navigation coupled with some very lucky dead reckoning.
Dudley Henriques

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