Take off - having troubles

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daveyg
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Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Aug 2019, 11:47
Location: North Wales. UK

Take off - having troubles

Post by daveyg »

Fairly new to me (2.5hrs), I have been working with the P40, although not as much as I would have liked. MSFS is eating my time trying to map the throttle and stick :? and I have to keep my skills up on the T6. However, I have got the engine starts sorted out and taxiing - without overheating. After spending some time with the guys in the shed and the aircraft on jacks, I have the hydraulics in hand as well. I am having difficulty with my take off though. Despite all the books saying that there is little tendency to swing to the left I have yet to get airborne without leaving the tarmac on the left - good job the gear is sturdy. The swing is quick onset and doesn't seem to respond too well to brake or rudder. Any tips please.

The landings are still a bit scruffy, I find the rate of descent hard to manage whilst keeping the speed in check, but that is just practise I reckon. All of the book info says to control the descent at 100mph - but the ASI is calibrated in knots and I find that if I slow down to 87 kts the aircraft becomes a bit of a handful.

Talking of books, I am intrigued by the vastly different methods of engine start in different references. IN the USAAC pilots manual - no priming mixture ICO, throttle wide open and pump 16psi on the wobble pump as soon as it fires throttle closed, mixture full rich. The Tomahawk, throttle set for 800rpm, mixture ICO, prime 4 strokes, 4psi on the wobble pump, energise, mixture to full rich and keep priming after engaging the starter. Reading Howard Cooks old article on checking out in the P40N, there is another different routine for engine start. There are differences in trim settings too.

Lovely aircraft to fly once it is in its natural element though. I love the fact that there is a need to constantly re-trim the rudder whenever you change power settings and the yaw as the gear comes down - that took me by surprise the first time.

dave

TreeTops
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Joined: 07 Apr 2010, 06:13

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by TreeTops »

Leaving the side of the runway on takeoff is usually always attributed to torque.
How quickly are you feeding in throttle?
Cheers
Trev

daveyg
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Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Aug 2019, 11:47
Location: North Wales. UK

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by daveyg »

Thanks Trev.

I'm feeding the throttle in smoothly, maybe too quickly, but the departure from the straight and narrow is quick and quite aggressive. I'm not sure what speed it happens as I am conscious of the impending doom and am too fixated on looking out of the screen :lol: . What has me confused a bit is the persistent reference to the fact that in line engines don't transmit the torque like a radial and that the aircraft has little tendency to swing . I have tried with rudder right trim pre launch and without, differential braking and fairly hard right rudder at the onset, all without significant impact.

I'll try feeding the throttle in more slowly, there is plenty of runway at EGOV after all, so why not. I'll try to keep an eye on speed and MP too.

dave

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Paughco
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Joined: 30 Nov 2014, 12:27

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by Paughco »

The P-40 is a great aircraft. It has gone through many variations. We are flying the early variants, the P-40B and C models. I always follow the starting procedure given in the A2A P-40 manual, as that is intended for the early series, Allision powered aircraft. I recommend that you check out Dudley's post on how to takeoff, land, and not get killed by, the P-51, as a lot of the tips apply the the P-40: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=31684. Everything he says here needs to be studied, but one thing that might help is to gently ease the stick forward as speed gets over about 50 mph, due to gyroscopic precession as the nose is pitched down during takeoff roll. Also, watch this video, which after going through the operations on the jacks, actually has some pretty useful info on takeoffs and landings towards the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOIg7Jx ... ex=4&t=25s. Start out on a really long runway and apply power gently, then work your way back to places like Catalina (KAVX) and Concrete (3W5). I'm pretty sure that the P-40 ASI reads in miles per hour. Here's a really good video for landing the P-40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG8uVYc ... 0A&index=2. I'm the "user" that requested it!

Seeya
ATB
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daveyg
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Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Aug 2019, 11:47
Location: North Wales. UK

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by daveyg »

Hi ATB and thanks for your help. The references to manuals that I quoted and that I find intriguing are all from P40B/C books and whilst, like you, I am using the A2A P40 manual to operate with, I am just interested in the hugely different procedures between the USAAF and the RAF. The RAF Pilot's Notes that I have downloaded is marked Tomahawk 1 which, it seems, were produced by the UK Air Ministry for the P40s that were despatched to Rangoon and were subsequently supplied to the AVG (Warbird Forum).

I had read the article on the Mustang when I first started with taildraggers and the T6, but you are right, it is certainly worth revisiting. I have also watched the P40 landing YouTube vid that you 'commissioned' - looks easy doesn't it :lol: I also, last night, watched a YouTube in cockpit video of a P40N take off with the camera positioned at the lower right side of the panel facing aft with the pilot, stick and throttle quadrant in view. I think the most notable points from that were that, during the take off run the throttle was never more than half open and there was quite a bit of right aileron input involved.

So, following on from that I tried a take off from EGOV (RAF Valley - 13 - 7000ft) I cruised north west with a planned touch down at EGNS (Ronaldsway, Isle of Man - 08 - 5500ft). The take off was achieved without leaving the tarmac, stick forward at about 70mph and the MP was 35" at lift off at 100mph. Still a noticeable pull to the left but hey - airborne. The landing was awful :oops: . I tried a running break and short run in on finals from about 3 miles; I got too low turning from base and then it all happened too fast and went wrong. Did get it on the ground but it was not pretty. I think I'll stick with my 10 mile straight in approach from 3500ft until I am a tad more competent

Thanks again

dave

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Paughco
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Joined: 30 Nov 2014, 12:27

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by Paughco »

Keep at it. The P-40 is a beast, but it's our beast. Best critical landing situation I can recommend for "do or die" landing practice is the strip at Catalina Island. Get in there and you can get in anywhere.

Seeya
ATB
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Jacques
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 17:54
Location: West Coast, USA

Re: Take off - having troubles

Post by Jacques »

There is another really great place to specifically practice your takeoffs and landings in California, just East of the San Francisco bay area. Its called NASA Crows Landing and its identifier is simply NRC. It features two long runways in a scissored configuration so you can takeoff, climb out, clean up and turn in for another landing in very short order. 17-35 is 7950’ and 12-30 is 6975’. Keep the wind still for pure takeoff and landing practice and then add it back in when you’re ready for more challenging wind situations.
Get everything tuned up here, then do as Paughco suggests and give Catalina a go!😀

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