Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

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BattleKoala
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Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by BattleKoala »

I read over the manual and it says doing an Immelmann is possible. I've tried emptying the tanks gaining 10,000 feet and diving to 400 MPH. Every time I pull the nose up to go an Immelmann it stalls and rolls even though I'm doing well over the stall speed. Any suggestions ? The stock p51 in fsx can do them even with out full throttle.

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Paughco
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by Paughco »

You're not the only one to have trouble looping (or similar maneuvers) in the Mustang. Plenty of discussion has ensued on the A2A forums: viewtopic.php?t=34570.

I've successfully looped my P-51 about three or four times. The best one I ever did was while descending into Pugetropolis from about 26,000 feet. Going through 10,000, I had all kinds of energy, and thought "Why not?" and pulled her into a very neat loop. Dudley says you want about 4Gs on the G-meter (Not sure if that is in the military P-51, but I have one in my Civ version). Here's Dudley's looping discussion: viewtopic.php?f=93&t=30531#p231773.

The P-51 is a great fighter, but it's heavy, which makes certain maneuvers difficult.

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DHenriques_
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by DHenriques_ »

BattleKoala wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 14:29 I read over the manual and it says doing an Immelmann is possible. I've tried emptying the tanks gaining 10,000 feet and diving to 400 MPH. Every time I pull the nose up to go an Immelmann it stalls and rolls even though I'm doing well over the stall speed. Any suggestions ? The stock p51 in fsx can do them even with out full throttle.
Assuming no other issue it sounds to me like you are pulling too much g and getting an accelerated stall.
Dudley Henriques

AviationAtWar
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by AviationAtWar »

Low fuel level will help, not having pylons with weight on them and no internal fuel tank will also help. Judging your position through the loop by looking at a wingtip rather than looking upward through the canopy may also make it easier.

BattleKoala
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by BattleKoala »

DHenriquesA2A wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 16:29
BattleKoala wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 14:29 I read over the manual and it says doing an Immelmann is possible. I've tried emptying the tanks gaining 10,000 feet and diving to 400 MPH. Every time I pull the nose up to go an Immelmann it stalls and rolls even though I'm doing well over the stall speed. Any suggestions ? The stock p51 in fsx can do them even with out full throttle.
Assuming no other issue it sounds to me like you are pulling too much g and getting an accelerated stall.
Dudley Henriques

Thanks for the tip. I'll apply back pressure more gradually, which should reduce the Gs. Right ??? Certainly is an accelerated stall.

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DHenriques_
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by DHenriques_ »

BattleKoala wrote: 22 Dec 2019, 23:35
DHenriquesA2A wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 16:29
BattleKoala wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 14:29 I read over the manual and it says doing an Immelmann is possible. I've tried emptying the tanks gaining 10,000 feet and diving to 400 MPH. Every time I pull the nose up to go an Immelmann it stalls and rolls even though I'm doing well over the stall speed. Any suggestions ? The stock p51 in fsx can do them even with out full throttle.
Assuming no other issue it sounds to me like you are pulling too much g and getting an accelerated stall.
Dudley Henriques

Thanks for the tip. I'll apply back pressure more gradually, which should reduce the Gs. Right ??? Certainly is an accelerated stall.
You should be able to loop a clean Mustang with 1/2 fuel using 260knots and no more than 4g's with 150knots through the top. You will need some positive pressure through the top which is a bit more than you would be using in say a lighter general aviation type aerobatic trainer.
Just be careful and don't load her up too fast on the back side. If you feel a nibble or buffet, unload the wing as that is the onset of the accelerated stall you want to avoid.
Dudley Henriques

BattleKoala
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by BattleKoala »

DHenriquesA2A wrote: 23 Dec 2019, 00:41
BattleKoala wrote: 22 Dec 2019, 23:35
DHenriquesA2A wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 16:29

Assuming no other issue it sounds to me like you are pulling too much g and getting an accelerated stall.
Dudley Henriques

Thanks for the tip. I'll apply back pressure more gradually, which should reduce the Gs. Right ??? Certainly is an accelerated stall.
You should be able to loop a clean Mustang with 1/2 fuel using 260knots and no more than 4g's with 150knots through the top. You will need some positive pressure through the top which is a bit more than you would be using in say a lighter general aviation type aerobatic trainer.
Just be careful and don't load her up too fast on the back side. If you feel a nibble or buffet, unload the wing as that is the onset of the accelerated stall you want to avoid.
Dudley Henriques
Thanks Dudley! I got it now. Nose up and nose down flips. So satisfying but not easy.

BellCobraIV
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by BellCobraIV »

When I first tried to loop the Mustang, I kept falling out of the loop. I called my Dad and discussed it with him. His advise was to keep about 1G all through the maneuver and carry plenty of power on the climb portion. He had real world and sim experience looping the P-51.
John

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DHenriques_
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Re: Flips and Immelmanns - P51D

Post by DHenriques_ »

BellCobraIV wrote: 31 Oct 2020, 14:48 When I first tried to loop the Mustang, I kept falling out of the loop. I called my Dad and discussed it with him. His advise was to keep about 1G all through the maneuver and carry plenty of power on the climb portion. He had real world and sim experience looping the P-51.
John
HI John; I'm sure your dad simply forgot that the instant you enter the pull for a loop you are above 1g in any airplane. Impossible to do it any other way.
Normally in the 51 you will be around 4 positive g on the way up, less through the top inverted, and again around 4g into the recovery. Once back in stabilized level flight you will once more be at 1g, (Level flight actually defines 1g)
Tell your dad not to worry. I forget this stuff myself from time to time and the older I get the harder it is to remember. :-)
Dudley Henriques

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