Problems with Military P-51D

[sdflyguy437]

Interesting and important Rob. In addition to my real world flying, I have a bunch of sim hours, primarily on Microsoft base sims. This is the first time I have experienced this type of problem. I do wonder about hardware and driver problems as the root of the problem. What are you using for control input? Do you use Precision Flight Controls equipment or GoFlight module add-ons? Any proprietary "green board" connections? Do yo use FSUIPC to interface with your sim? Reports like yours make me wonder why my system singles out this A/C to mess with. Flyguy

Nope, I'm a simple farm boy and that's how I like things. When I migrated to a new computer last August, I did not even install FSUIPC with FSX:SE at the time. Within the last couple of weeks I've moved to P3Dv4.5 and I'm only using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and Saitek rudder pedals...no connections...no nothing......

There are a lot of guys around here more capable than I and maybe if you could describe exactly how the airplane is crashing on takeoff, you could get some help with sorting it out. So far all I've read is descriptions about how wrong it all is, but you've not described what's actually happening to cause you to crash on takeoff and I think an explanation would help with the process...it couldn't hurt at least...

I agree. I have just started what I think will be a complexed process if it works. You use a straight forward system with fewer drivers etc and I have a cluttered system with lots of interactions amongst add-ons. Take off is just the start - On takeoff I can not control the yaw with rudder input so I add a touch of differential braking and off I go into the woods. If I get to the point of getting the tail up, I nose over and bend the prop and its off to the "repair shop". All control inputs seem excessive. I have damped them down on P3D to no avail. The frustrating thing is that I know what to change in the aircraft.cfg and *.air files but these files are inaccessible and the repair shop is not my cup of tea. sdflyguy

[sdflyguy437]

Hello John,

you'll want to contact aerosoft for your refund as it looks like you purchased through there store?

We are not interested at this stage of reverting a well established critically acclaimed technology used to train pilots the world over to a less fidelity relaxed realism of a default flight model using the old ESP system air files and what not for flight modelling but thank you for your interest.

thanks,
Lewis

Thanks Lewis, I will work on the refund later if it becomes necessary. And I appreciate your reticence to dabble with the aircraft.cfg and *.air files. I would not expect anyone to change an aircraft that is flying well for others. I was surprised that other pilots are not having problems. And I would never argue flight handling with a pilot who has flown the real aircraft. I have NOT flown a real world P-51 and I defer to their opinions. That having been said, it does NOT fly well on my system and I too am not an amateur, either in the cockpit or on the simulator. So I would love to fly this beautiful model. It does begin to look as if there is a hardware or software issue going on. So what I think I need is advice from someone who has made the changes necessary to tame the handling characteristics with multiple add-ons/drivers. sdflyguy

[sdflyguy437]

Hi.
I have FSXA not P3Dv4 , but i have only had pilot errors with this aircraft , it took some controlling while i was learning this aircraft , and she will bite hard if you do not stay alert , but once mastered , she is great .
going by your purchase at aerosoft , you payed for both the P51 and accu-feel , you do not need accu-feel with the P51 because it comes with accu-sim , i wonder if you had both running when you had the issues you say you had , accu-feel is for NON accu-sim aircraft only , to enhance your flying on other aircraft.
Also if you buy A2A aircraft from other vendors , they may not be fully updated , as the other vendors may have a bit of a delay before implementing A2A latest updates to their products , i have always purchased A2A products direct from A2A .
Also you say you are a real pilot , but have you flown a real P51 , dudley has , and if dudley says this aircraft handles like the real thing , then you can guarantee it does.
Also did you follow A2A recommended control settings in the aircraft documentation , and i never knew about the yoke you use , so i googled it , it is a very serious yoke beyond most simmers costs , so maybe there could be an issue in the way the yokes drivers work with A2A aircraft , only someone else with the same yoke and aircraft could test this out.
regards alan.

Thanks Alan! Now I am learning things I never knew. Yes, I did evidently have both accu-feel and accu-sim running simultaneously. If I get a chance to reload the P-51 I will be certain the files are not effected by accu-sim. Please see my reply to Dudley (if that is possible on the forum). I do accept his word for the handling characteristics of this sim plane and my primary question now is exactly why the same A/C does NOT behave well on my system.
Thanks for your thoughts. sdflyguy

[sdflyguy437]

One thing to consider is that low frame rates can negatively impact flight models. Complex sceneries, high resolution clouds, dense air traffic, etc., -- especially in combination -- may cause aircraft to behave poorly and erratically which is especially problematic with high-torque piston aircraft like the P-51D. Try operating from a smaller airport away from a major urban center. Also try tuning down cultural settings.

If you use a real-time weather engine, consider reverting to static weather as you experiment. I've also found that some engines model weather with greater effect than others.

In my recent tests of the P-51D I noticed that the controls lock is set at cold start. This could be a cause for your taxi problems. Check the base of your vritual flight stick that the control is unlocked.

Don't use full throttle on your takeoff run.

Totally different product, but DCS World comes with a free P-51 and a series of training tutorials. The DCS version corresponds fairly well to the A2A version.

Thanks Skycat, the control lock is another thing I missed!! I DID manage to take it off every time I flew my real A/C ( I am still alive and flying). I just never had a sim A/C with a true control lock. Re frame rates, I have three 4k monitors for out the window, several sceneries, Active Sky, and Terra Flora running and it is maintaining 60 FPS most of the time. A i9 CPU with a bucket load of memory and a really good video card is a sweet thing. This set up is new to me - I smoked my previous system when I plugged in the 32nd USB port - POOF! smoke! This week my second video card is coming along with 3 small monitors to be mounted on the instrument panel to complete a B737 NG or MAX panel. I intend to concentrate on airline flying with VATSIM. So why did I get the P-51? Who doesn't love a Mustang! sdflyguy

[WB_FlashOver]

Hello John,

you'll want to contact aerosoft for your refund as it looks like you purchased through there store?

We are not interested at this stage of reverting a well established critically acclaimed technology used to train pilots the world over to a less fidelity relaxed realism of a default flight model using the old ESP system air files and what not for flight modelling but thank you for your interest.

thanks,
Lewis

Thank you Lewis for this stance. If you made your planes easy to fly I would not be buying them. I prefer the realism that has been incorporated into your aircraft by those that have actually flown the RW aircraft such as Dudley with his many years in her. Morphing the P-51 to make her easy to fly is just so wrong.

sdflyguy, you're not the first and won't be the last to have trouble with the A2A P-51 Mustang. But here is the catch, it is almost always a pilot issue and not a software issue. The P-51 Tech support page is full of first time Mustang drivers that cannot handle her. Now, those that have been civil and open minded and have worked with those that have successfully mastered the Mustang have become some of her most loyal pilots. She is truly a masterpiece but she is to be respected as she will get you in trouble if you don't fly her correctly.

Cheers
Roger

[sdflyguy437]

OK, I do hear those replies that say there is a learning curve and I understand this. The damage routine and repair shop make it difficult for me to accomplish "flight" at this time. Is it possible to disable or remove the "damage and repair shop" routine? That way I could progress in pilot skills more rapidly. Currently the "repair shop" makes me wait a long time to retry a TAKEOFF after I crash..

[Skycat]

There is an option to turn off damage in the Shift+3 panel. However, I don't know if togglng that disables Accusim completely. I will test this tonight.

You can do a complete overhaul with a single click in the maintenance hangar. Usually it is best to do that after a major collision so you know all systems have been reset to factory new. The value of the maintenance hangar is you can see parts wear over time, or more rapidly if you are running the engine too hard, landing too forcefully on one strut or the other, braking too often, etc. For example some years ago I kept blowing cylinder heads on the Spitfire Mk.1 until I learned to respect the pitch settings.

[Ron Attwood]

I was surprised that other pilots are not having problems. ....... So I would love to fly this beautiful model. It does begin to look as if there is a hardware or software issue going on. So what I think I need is advice from someone who has made the changes necessary to tame the handling characteristics with multiple add-ons/drivers. sdflyguy

Believe me, there are LOADS of people who had problems with the P-51 myself included. For a long time I struggled with T.O. It was a swine. I gave up on it in frustration. I went back to it with a different frame of mind and started to FLY it as opposed to being a passenger. A bit like riding a feisty horse. You've got to show it who's boss. But with sensitivity of course.
As an expert you'll know that better than I.

A thought: Have you removed the control lock? Just askin'.

[sdflyguy437]

Ron, Thanks. First of all I'll have to see if I can get the P-51 reinstalled on my sim. I'll check updates and use no other P-51 improvements or liveries. Then I will release the control locks (duh1), recheck the trims, run repair shop and then use shift-3 to off load as much of the repair shop routine as possible. Then I will try again with all my P3Dv4 sensitivities pulled wayt back. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the help. sdflyguy

[Ron Attwood]

Ron, Thanks. First of all I'll have to see if I can get the P-51 reinstalled on my sim. I'll check updates and use no other P-51 improvements or liveries. Then I will release the control locks (duh1), recheck the trims, run repair shop and then use shift-3 to off load as much of the repair shop routine as possible. Then I will try again with all my P3Dv4 sensitivities pulled wayt back. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the help. sdflyguy

You don't think you're overthinking this do you?

[MkIV Hvd]

Ron, Thanks. First of all I'll have to see if I can get the P-51 reinstalled on my sim. I'll check updates and use no other P-51 improvements or liveries. Then I will release the control locks (duh1), recheck the trims, run repair shop and then use shift-3 to off load as much of the repair shop routine as possible. Then I will try again with all my P3Dv4 sensitivities pulled wayt back. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the help. sdflyguy

You don't think you're overthinking this do you?

Possibly...all but the control lock part...but further to what Ron said, I'm willing to bet that every single pilot here with the exception of Dudley had similar issues with learning to fly the Mustang initially. It's a different kettle o' fish for sure...ESPECIALLY...if you don't already have a bag of taildragger experience under your belt at the outset.

[Oracle427]

Set the sensitivities to max, you will encounter no latency in control response. It will make things harder to control with increased latency when you dial the sensitivity down.

[Skycat]

I checked the "damage off" toggle in the Shift+3 panel. It doesn't completely disable damage; the propeller will still bend if it strikes the ground and the only way to repair it is using the maintenance hangar.

[sdflyguy437]

Thanks to all who offered help. It really did help. I am flying the P-51 and learning the technology slowly. I still have issues with the damage programing and I will need to continue to learn to cope with it. So I will keep this A/C in my aircraft stable and I am no longer asking for a refund. Again, thanks for the help. sdflyguy

[AviationAtWar]

That's great!